HO you know I never am hateful or mean spirited.
I had one pastor in times past who taught that one could receive The Holy Ghost without speaking in tongues.He based his view on the scripture in 1.COR 12 :30 that said do all speak with tongues ?,of course Paul was talking about giving messages in tongues in the local church.
I also believe that scripture is speaking about the gift of tongues, and it goes along with his other references to the gifts of the Spirit, but I know many who believe it's referring to tongues of any kind.
And no, you are not hateful or mean spirited in any way. I like having discussions like this because even if we disagree in the end, we will still be friends.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Certainly I can disagree and be agreeable. But on the initial evidence doctrine boy that's in my blood ,I'm classical pentecostal on that.
And on the Oneness too I could never see that trinity doctrine yes once I sat under that teaching too.
And any baptizing I do is in the name Of Jesus The Christ.
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People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
Rico yes the question is when did the new covenant come into effect?
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People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
The Bible is silent on whether or not they spoke in tongues, although I don't believe they did (I know John didn't, as he was in utero) because surely something would be mentioned, as it would be strange.
However, even in the book of Acts, people are noted as receiving the Holy Ghost but no mention of tongues. In fact, Zachariah is mentioned as being filled with the HG and prophesying without mention of tongues.
Coincidentally, there are people in Acts that also are filled with the HG and prophesy without mention of tongues. I'm not saying that they didn't occur, but silence isn't proof they did just because it's mentioned elsewhere as having occured.
I appreciate the convo. This is also helping me to delve into scripture more, as I've never studied this out. I asked my friend LR to help me out with something, I just haven't talked to her about this yet, but I did mention a Bible study with her to help me understand this better.
I appreciate you, brother. You know I love ya.
This is something that was never taught to us ... in the classical OP setting ... they insisted that everyone spoke in tongues ... yet the more one investigates there isn't the scipture to back this claim.
Coincidentally, there are people in Acts that also are filled with the HG and prophesy without mention of tongues. I'm not saying that they didn't occur, but silence isn't proof they did just because it's mentioned elsewhere as having occured.
HO,
Do you believe these people were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ?
Acts 16
14 Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.
15 And when she and her household were baptized,
32 Then they (Paul and Silas) spoke the word of the Lord to him (the jailer) and to all who were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.
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And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. [Zechariah 14:9]
Ignorance of the Identity of the One True God is not a valid reason to practice idolatry.
This is something that was never taught to us ... in the classical OP setting ... they insisted that everyone spoke in tongues ... yet the more one investigates there isn't the scipture to back this claim.
John 3:8 is part of scripture and exists to edify the reader.
Parse any word structure and demand precise verbatim expression for any understanding your POV takes you, but any reader who does, does it at their own risk by trusting in their own understanding.
we have the Day of Pentecost witness where they were all filled and spoke with tongues
we have the Cornelius' household witness
we have the Is. 28:11 witness pertaining to entering into the rest
we have our own personal experience as a witness
....but still we also have those who search for exceptions based on their dissatisfaction that the scripture does not say "you must speak in an unknown tongue to prove you have received the gift of the Holy Ghost"
We have a witness in ICo 14:22 that tongues were given as sign for those who believe NOT.
...but still there are those who want to say, that this sign involving sound does not pertain to everyone that receives the gift of the Holy Ghost. They challenge the words of our Lord as saying that this sound is for everyone who is born of the spirit NOT RECEIVING THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST or they will argue that our Lord's words did NOT say exactly that the sound is speaking in an unknown tongue. This despite the fact that only an unknown tongue would have unknown origin or destination, exactly as described in John 3:8. They do this to their own hurt and may well be stumblingblocks to little ones.
I suppose we will always have intellectual literalists among us that will demand precision verbatim textual content rather than seeking the spirit to lead and guide them; trusting in their own understanding of verbatim text they have no need of being led.
Such persons do not need the Spirit to guide them, they are fully able to trust in their own understanding.
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Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath [James 1:19]
"And it came to pass that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with The Holy Ghost".
How is this different than the Acts infillings?
Jesus own words:
John 15:26] But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away:. for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you but if I depart, I will send him unto you
No one denies that tongues is evidence of the HS ... but to say that scripture demands it ... as some altar workers do ... is FALSE ... if it were ... every in filling in scripture would make it ABUDANTLY CLEAR .... God is not a God of confusion.
I suppose we will always have intellectual literalists among us that will demand precision verbatim textual content rather than seeking the spirit to lead and guide them; trusting in their own understanding of verbatim text they have no need of being led.
Such persons do not need the Spirit to guide them, they are fully able to trust in their own understanding.
Yes, well.......*ahem* ......
We ALL have a responsibility to be diligent and thorough in making sure we divide the Scripture .... ALL OF IT ..... properly. If we don't do this then we are failing to act on a very important requirement of scripture. We're to "search" the Scripture carefully and we're to divide properly.
In so doing people come to different conclusions and those differences show up even in basic soteriology among oneness apostolics.
Those of us who are sincerely desiring a knowledge of truth wait on the Spirit to lead and guide. Just because the same conclusions aren't reached by the whole doesn't mean the whole aren't diligently studying and seeking.
We are taught in Scripture that we are NOT to trust in our own understanding. That includes ALL of us -- even those who believe they have their theology straight. How do we know they're not just trusting in their own understanding?
I see us - most of us anyhow - as all being in pretty much the same boat. Some are sitting a little further back than others perhaps and maybe a little slower with the oars. LOL!
__________________ Smiles & Blessings.... ~Felicity Welsh~ (surname courtesy of Jim Yohe)
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