"Divine Flesh" remedy

Shalom Shalom


Wow ,Blume.

Yes GOD is a SPIRIT ,First adam became a Living SOUL which is the IMAGE.


Yes GOD has a SOUL how else did YESHUA resurect.THEN you dont believe JEsus is GOD which as a SOUL.


Your the One claiming Jesus is GOD then deny HE HAS a SOUL.


Yeshua wasnt born in SIN.His sole nature is that after the SPIRIT OF GOD ,where as our Nature drawn back unto is SIN.


If eating sleeeping and drinking nature then you believe animals have souls and can be saved,NOT.



Asternship

SHalom Shalom


Blume,Pleas show me scripture where it says fully Man and fully GOD.Its not there.Man is of the Earth Earthly.Man is of the flesh flesly <SINFULL>Yeshusa was not a Man of the earthly and a Man of the heavenly,NOT BOTH.Fully man and fully GOD comes from dualims ,meaning Both Good and Evil.You propose this very well to say it was possible for him to sin and be Tempted to sin.

Asternship

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Asternship

Shalom Shalom


Wow ,Blume.

Yes GOD is a SPIRIT ,First adam became a Living SOUL which is the IMAGE.


Yes GOD has a SOUL how else did YESHUA resurect.THEN you dont believe JEsus is GOD which as a SOUL.

God DOES NOT have a soul. God is SPIRIT. Man is spirit, soul and body. 1 Thess 5:23. Show me one verse that says God has a soul.

Jesus resurrected because HE DIED first. God cannot die. So if God did nto die, what died? HUMANITY.

Your the One claiming Jesus is GOD then deny HE HAS a SOUL.

Of course! You obviously do not understand oneness.

Yeshua wasnt born in SIN.His sole nature is that after the SPIRIT OF GOD ,where as our Nature drawn back unto is SIN.

Irrelevant. Nobody said JESUS was born in sin. He had the nature of MAN because HE WAS TEMPTED, while God cannot be tempted.

Do you believe Mary was the mother of God??? You must, if you believe Jesus was not HUMAN.

If eating sleeeping and drinking nature then you believe animals have souls and can be saved,NOT.

Who said having a soul means you can be saved? That is false tradition. the BIBLE called animals "SOULS".

Gen 1:20 KJV And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life (SOUL), and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Research NEPHESH.

H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

Rev 16:3 KJV And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.


SOUL is natural life. God does not have natural life. Only supernatural. the HUMANITY alone had natural SOUL.

Joh 4:24 KJV God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Gen 2:7 KJV And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Num 23:19 KJV God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

Sometimes P.O., I think it is may be better to not even study them at all. I once got hooked on an awful doctrine an old friend of my Dad's who turned reprobate by the name of Ted Fitch. The complete consumation of the transgressor at death or the Annilation of the Wicked doctrine almost ensnared my young impressionable mind. It took me a good while before I finally came out of it by the mercies of the Lord. A loving Pastor who was like my own Father, a set of parents, and praying church friends could not shake me from it. Only when I realized that I was in trouble with God did I shake it. I was so happy that his presence had returned that I was almost beside myself for a long time Yet, I was unaware that he had mostly departed...though never completely.

I didnt know Fitch taught annihilation. I thought he taught ultimate reconciliation? But if he did then he was not teaching some "awful doctrine" but the very truth of the doctrine of eternal judgment. I am sorry that you thought the Lord was angry at you for believing the truth. No doubt the reason you were "hooked" on it was because it is set forth in such a way scripturally that it is clearly more in line with the Old Testament and the teaching of Yeshua himself.

Off the topic ? Yes but interesting to note that one as well regarded as Bro. Strange at one time saw it.

[ApostolicTexas]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange
Sometimes P.O., I think it is may be better to not even study them at all. I once got hooked on an awful doctrine an old friend of my Dad's who turned reprobate by the name of Ted Fitch. The complete consumation of the transgressor at death or the Annilation of the Wicked doctrine almost ensnared my young impressionable mind. It took me a good while before I finally came out of it by the mercies of the Lord. A loving Pastor who was like my own Father, a set of parents, and praying church friends could not shake me from it. Only when I realized that I was in trouble with God did I shake it. I was so happy that his presence had returned that I was almost beside myself for a long time Yet, I was unaware that he had mostly departed...though never completely.

"he had mostly departed...though never completely?....of course not..Why would the Lord go against His own word?..He will NEVER leave us or forsake us

[mfblume]

More detailed study of this issue.

The Doctrine of Christ's Divine Flesh

A few years ago, a doctrine emerged amongst Apostolic believers called "Divine Flesh".

The key verse heralded as espousing this doctrine is 1 Cor 15:47 as follows:

1 Corinthians 15:44-47 KJV (44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. (46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. (47) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

After prayerful study of this note, I surveyed the intention of the 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians in which this text is found, and realized the verse is speaking of Christ's resurrected body, and not the body with which he was born as Divine Flesh proponents claim.

The entire chapter speaks of the theme, "With what body do they come?" (v. 35). Paul taught that our resurrections shall be identical to Jesus Christ's visible and physical resurrection when He physically was changed in His tomb upon His resurrection by calling Christ's experience the firstfruits. Firstfruits was an Old Testament offering comprised of the first grain that was harvested and specially sacrificed to the Lord weeks before the remainder of the harvest was obtained. The firstfruits grain was the same grain that would be harvested later, but was simply taken beforehand for a special offering. Paul claimed Jesus Christ resurrected before we shall resurrect since He was the firstfruits of the resurrection -- the same of many indenticals to follow, but a special sacrifice to God and in special status. Some feel the term firstfruits implies something more that is not explained by Paul, but what we have shown here is all Paul meant.

Paul taught that Jesus became the Second Adam when He arose from the dead and not before. This is indicated by the term "firstborn".

Colossians 1:18 KJV And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

"Firstborn" is a title in Hebrew culture. The firstborn was literally Esau in Isaac's family, but because of Jacob's and Esau's hearts, Jacob obtained the birthright and became firstborn. This story was a foreshadow of the great truth regarding Adam and Jesus Christ. This is true with Jesus. Adam was actually in existence before Jesus Christ, but Jesus Christ became firstborn from the dead, taking the headship and birthright away from the failed Adam and claiming it for Himself.

Revelation also witnesses of Christ's birthright position here:

Revelation 1:5 KJV And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

As much as He was said to be made the firstborn only upon His experience of resurrection, He also became the author of salvation only after He suffered and died. Jesus was not firstbegotten in relation to mankind in general until His death, although He was literally Mary's first child. This same notion is implied when we read He was not author of salvation before His death.

Hebrews 5:9 KJV And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

So the idea of being the Lord from Heaven in reference to His body in 1 Corinthians 15 is simply referring to the resurrection state of His body when His status at that point caused Him to be called the Lord from Heaven, as He became Author of Salvation and Firstborn from the dead after His death.

We also read He became Lord in His resurrection, in the same sense.

Acts 2:32-36 KJV This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. (33) Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. (34) For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, (35) Until I make thy foes thy footstool. (36) Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Jesus is God manifest in the flesh. And the passage that stated Jesus is "the Lord from heaven," whereas Adam was "of the earth" is only speaking of Christ's resurrected flesh, not the flesh with which He was born.

The reason Paul spoke of Christ's body as being from Heaven is due to the overall context saying we shall experience a resurrection of our bodies as He did. Paul taught that our resurrection bodies will be bodies "from Heaven."

2 Corinthians 5:1-2 KJV (1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. (2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

There is much significance in insisting Christ's pre-death body was of the earth like ours. In order to redeem mankind, Jesus Christ had to be born in an earthy body because of the principle of the Kinsman Redeemer. This is typified in the book of Ruth.

Ruth was married to a Hebrew man who died. And after her husband's death, any claims she had to his name and his land in Israel would have been lost forever had not a "kinsman" stepped forward to redeem them. That "redeemer" was Boaz.

Ruth 4:5 KJV Then said Boaz, What day thou buyest the field of the hand of Naomi, thou must buy it also of Ruth the Moabitess, the wife of the dead, to raise up the name of the dead upon his inheritance.

Mankind was in the state of Ruth, so to speak, with man’s head, Adam, having died. We required a kinsman as well to save us and return us to the status we had before Adam died in sin. This redeemer could not be an angel and God could not it as "God". It had to be someone who was near of kin. It had to be another human being born like we were born, yet without sin.

As much as there were other human beings and even other Hebrews around Ruth, her particular husband's name and land was not associated with these other people. She required someone closer to her husband, family-wise. Similarly, had Jesus been born of divine flesh that was not of this earth, we would not have someone close enough to us with whom we could "identify" and claim to be our Kinsman Redeemer Who would return us back to God and claim our dominion in the earth once again.

Notice the understanding of the requirement of a Kinsman Redeemer to save us as found in the following verse, also in 1 Corinthains 15.

1 Corinthians 15:21 KJV (21) For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

The sort of man who brought death was a man of the earth, earthy, namely Adam. Paul contrasted Adam from Jesus. But in order to have a proper contrast, and not compare apples and oranges, there must be a common factor between the two, along with a diametrically opposed point as well. That common factor is the humanity of both Jesus and Adam. The opposed elements are the death Adam brought and the Resurrection Jesus brought.

Paul was actually implying that the only way in which mankind could be redeemed was for a kinsman to stand in his place and die. The bible teaches this very thing!

The bible says the soul that sinneth it shall die. Death was the penalty for sin.

Ezekiel 18:4 KJV Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

God could not die, and neither can angels die. But yet all mankind is born in sin, causing us to have no man who could die for us and redeem us by paying our price. Resurrection had to come by man since death came by man. The only way to provide a kinsman redeemer to bring this resurrection from death, and provide us a man without sin to die for us, was for God to manifest in the exact same flesh we have. When God manifested in flesh, it was flesh like our own, but without sin. That is the only difference. The Bible did not teach there were other differences between Christ's flesh and our own.

continued...

[mfblume]

PART 2

Hebrews 4:15 KJV For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Hebrews 5:1-2 KJV For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: (2) Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.

As much as the High Priest of Israel was able to relate to the people for whom he would carry out the atonement ritual, Jesus Christ is our High Priest who partook of the same flesh we have, yet without sin, so He could have compassion on us in our plight.

Hebrews 2 explains this very note in showing how angels could not redeem, us, but rather someone of the same flesh we are.

Hebrews 2:16 KJV For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

The seed of Abraham means His flesh came from Abraham as far as His humanity existed. He gained that from Mary, who was a descendant of Abraham.

The doctrine of Divine Flesh robs Jesus Christ of this requirement. If Jesus was born with flesh that is not earthy, then we could not identify with Him in His death and resurrection to be saved. The reason we are baptized into His death (Ro 6:3) is because we were able to identify with Him in His death so we can be considered to have died. We could not identify with an angel, for we ourselves are not angels. This means Jesus was a genuine Kinsman -- of the same flesh we have. Without the same earthly flesh we have, we could not identify with Him and therefore could not be baptized into His death.

Identification with Jesus Christ means that His death is considered to be our own deaths. How is that possible if His flesh that died was nothing like our own flesh, except for its appearance and species? The reason we can identify with Jesus in His death is because He had flesh as we have, and its death carried out the very same experiences we would have experienced had we been in the same situation physically on the cross. Furthermore, our flesh is subject to decay once it dies. Divine Flesh teachers claim His flesh would not have decayed had it died! However, Peter claimed David's prophecy about being raised to not see corruption was speaking of Jesus' Christ's resurrection. That prophecy claimed resurrection was the reason it would not see decay, so that He arose only three days after He died. Lazarus' resurrection occurred four days after he died, when his sister Martha remarked he "now stinketh" (John 11:39). Three days falls short of that state of decay.

Acts 2:27 KJV Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

To not suffer one to see corruption means that something must be done in order for the body to not decay. And that something is resurrection, as the context stated.

Acts 2:31 KJV He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

If the body would not see corruption whether it stayed in the grave after three days or many weeks, it would not require a resurrection in order to see that happen as David's Psalm says would prevent corruption. But the context of the statement proves that He was resurrected in order to not decay. This rendered His body immortal and incorruptible. This is speaking of His resurrected body alone, just as 1 Cor 15:47 is speaking only of His resurrected body and not the body he was born with.

Being incorruptible is being immortal. And being immortal means flesh cannot die, and we know Jesus died!

At any rate, there is enough emphasis upon Christ's physical flesh and humanity that had to be identical to our own in order for us to identify with His death to claim it as our own, in the very words of Romans 6, for us to be unable to claim His flesh was somehow divine and not of the earth as our flesh is of the earth.

Divine flesh doctrine, therefore, lacks the truth of Kinsman Redemption, and identification with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection. This strikes at the very heart and core of the plan of salvation, and is, therefore, error.

Also, the bible teaches that Mary's body contributed to the flesh of Jesus Christ due to this law.

Leviticus 12:2 KJV Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.

Luke 2:22 KJV And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

Mary had to conceive in order to be required to accomplish this cleansing.

Matthew 1:20 KJV But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Luke 2:21 KJV And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

Mary CONCEIVED. Conception is the egg of a woman being fertilized by a seed and creating a "zygote". Conception is the word used in the Bible to describe this process. And since conception means a woman's egg is fertilized, this means Mary's egg was part of Christ's flesh and that means His flesh was not merely incubated in Mary as though she did not provide any earthly flesh to Jesus Christ's body.

So we see a double confirmation of Mary's conception, explaining that Jesus was made of earthly flesh until His resurrection when it was changed into a body that is from Heaven.

In summary, just as our flesh is earthly and will change to be called flesh "from Heaven", Jesus' flesh was earthly and was changed to become flesh from Heaven.

2 Corinthians 5:1-2 KJV (1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. (2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

1 Corinthians 15:47 KJV (47) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Philippians 3:21 KJV Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

The same manner in which His body was changed in resurrection is the fashion in which our bodies literally will change in our resurrection.

Jesus Christ was of the same flesh and blood we are until He resurrected to have a body from Heaven as we shall have when we resurrect. And that is why He was our great Kinsman Redeemer and why His salvation really works!

[Michael The Disciple]

Sorry guys you are missing it. I think up to THIS POINT Michael was doing fine:

It's not that our flesh will be changed into heavenly MATERIAL as Christ's flesh came from Mary's womb with heavenly material, but rather Christ's earthly flesh was changed into heavenly flesh just as our earthly flesh will change into heavenly flesh.

Pauls ENTIRE POINT in this portion of teaching is the contrast between flesh and spirit. They are two distinct things.

44: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45: And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46: Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47: The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48: As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49: And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50: Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Of course Christs body from Mary was flesh/natural like ours from the womb. But after resurrection that fleshly/natural material was changed to heavenly/spiritual material. Thats the point.

As we have borne natural bodies that is of flesh we shall then have heavenly bodies which are spiritual.

Paul says nothing about "heavenly flesh". Thats what hes trying to show that FLESH cannot inherit the Kingdom.

If we look at say Mark 16 It says he that believes AND is baptized shall be saved. We understand belief and baptism are together.

When Paul says FLESH AND BLOOD cannot enter Heaven we have no right to speak of "heavenly flesh". No. Paul says FLESH and also.............blood cannot inherit the Kingdom.

He means neither flesh or blood will be in Heaven. We must be CHANGED into the HEAVENLY AND SPIRITUAL bodies he is writing about.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Sorry guys you are missing it. I think up to THIS POINT Michael was doing fine:



Pauls ENTIRE POINT in this portion of teaching is the contrast between flesh and spirit. They are two distinct things.

44: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45: And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46: Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47: The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48: As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49: And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50: Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Of course Christs body from Mary was flesh/natural like ours from the womb. But after resurrection that fleshly/natural material was changed to heavenly/spiritual material. Thats the point.

As we have borne natural bodies that is of flesh we shall then have heavenly bodies which are spiritual.

Paul says nothing about "heavenly flesh". Thats what hes trying to show that FLESH cannot inherit the Kingdom.

If we look at say Mark 16 It says he that believes AND is baptized shall be saved. We understand belief and baptism are together.

When Paul says FLESH AND BLOOD cannot enter Heaven we have no right to speak of "heavenly flesh". No. Paul says FLESH and also.............blood cannot inherit the Kingdom.

He means neither flesh or blood will be in Heaven. We must be CHANGED into the HEAVENLY AND SPIRITUAL bodies he is writing about.

Again this is the old argument that full preterists propose. In truth, though, it is not flesh versus spirit, but rather NATURAL versus SPIRITUAL that is the proper context. And Jesus has a SPIRITUAL BODY as much as we shall have one. That is why He is called the Lord FROM HEAVEN in regards to his body, just as we shall receive a house FROM HEAVEN.

Jesus had a body of FLESH AND BONE after His resurrection. And by changing the flesh to immortal flesh, it is explained what God does with our flesh that does not inherit the Kingdom. He changes it to spiritual flesh.

A BODY is a container. And that is the notion given in 2 Cor 5. A HOUSE. And there is no BODY that is not physical that exists in the sense BODY is used here.

See what I mean, or do you believe in a spiritual physical body, just not made of "flesh"?

[mfblume]

Are you saying Jesus' flesh and bone did not inherit the Kingdom after His resurrection, with which he ascended into glory?

Luke 24:39 KJV Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

At any rate, I hope the main thought of my post is not lost that stressed Christ's Kinsman Redeemer status which allows us to IDENTIFY with His death.