The Theology of Pain and Suffering? - Page 9

rrford · #81 04-15-2007, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Apparently no one has any Scripture to justify making the statement that pain is the result of the curse, so we'll just leave it at that.

So pain existed before the curse? Is there scripture to support that? If not, it i just as easy to see it either way.

rrford · #82 04-15-2007, 12:17 AM

BTW, several commentarians do allude to the notion that Eve would not have felt the pain and sorrow of childbearing previous to the fall.

On the other hand, using the reasoning that pain could have not existed prior to sin would also insinuate that Adam never sweated before sin either.

Felicity · #83 04-15-2007, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrford

BTW, several commentarians do allude to the notion that Eve would not have felt the pain and sorrow of childbearing previous to the fall.

Well I've always kind of thot that would have been the case.

But if Adam had a big rock fall on his head or if he inadvertently got too close to the fire or if he stepped on a sharp thistle or got too much sun or if he fell down and bumped his head on something hard ....... he wouldn't have felt pain as a result of any of those things? Hmmmmm.....

I don't know. Never really thought about it much before but it seems to me that he would have felt discomfort. If he could experience pleasure, then why wouldn't he have been able to have sensations of hurt, pain, hunger, tiredness, etc.?

Doesn't really matter much to anything important I don't guess.

rrford · #84 04-15-2007, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

Well I've always kind of thot that would have been the case.

But if Adam had a big rock fall on his head or if he inadvertently got too close to the fire or if he stepped on a sharp thistle or got too much sun or if he fell down and bumped his head on something hard ....... he wouldn't have felt pain as a result of any of those things? Hmmmmm.....

I don't know. Never really thought about it much before but it seems to me that he would have felt discomfort. If he could experience pleasure, then why wouldn't he have been able to have sensations of hurt, pain, hunger, tiredness, etc.?

Doesn't really matter much to anything important I don't guess.

In actuality, I was not saying they never felt any pain or discomfort. ONly that the process of childbearing, had it already occured, would have been without the same pain now associated with it.

For the most part these questions are only academic in nature as they have no intrinsic spiritual value. It does make one wonder about the life they lived in Eden.

Barb · #85 04-15-2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrford

In actuality, I was not saying they never felt any pain or discomfort. ONly that the process of childbearing, had it already occured, would have been without the same pain now associated with it.

For the most part these questions are only academic in nature as they have no intrinsic spiritual value. It does make one wonder about the life they lived in Eden.

So then pain is NOT a result of the Fall...only the trevail that accompanies childbearing.

rrford · #86 04-15-2007, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barb

So then pain is NOT a result of the Fall...only the trevail that accompanies childbearing.

Not sure. One can only assume.

rgcraig · #87 04-15-2007, 11:10 AM

I have heard discussions that prior to the fall perhaps Adam had 100% use of his brain - we use about 6% now.

Perhaps 100% use of his brain allowed self-healing if and when he was injured and he didn't "feel" pain as we know it now.

Something to really think about and we'll never really know.

Barb · #88 04-15-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I have heard discussions that prior to the fall perhaps Adam had 100% use of his brain - we use about 6% now.

Perhaps 100% use of his brain allowed self-healing if and when he was injured and he didn't "feel" pain as we know it now.

Something to really think about and we'll never really know.

No, we won't, but it's sure made for 9 pages of interesting discussion, huh?!

It's sure something I never thought about before...

Truly Blessed · #89 04-15-2007, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrford

So pain existed before the curse? Is there scripture to support that? If not, it i just as easy to see it either way.

I get the sense that some of you believe Adam was created an eternal being. This is not what the Bible teaches. Genesis 3:22-23 says, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever---, therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken."

It is obvious Adam was not created to live forever without eating from the tree of life. So, God banished him from the garden to prevent him from doing so.

mizpeh · #90 04-15-2007, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

I get the sense that some of you believe Adam was created an eternal being. This is not what the Bible teaches. Genesis 3:22-23 says, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever---, therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken."

It is obvious Adam was not created to live forever without eating from the tree of life. So, God banished him from the garden to prevent him from doing so.

Your argument doesn't necessarily follow the events of the fall.

Now that God had pronounced the curses and that death would indeed be a result of man's disobedience.....the fruit of the tree of life must be kept out of their reach otherwise if they eat, they will live forever.

If death is the result of disobedience for Adam and Eve, then how were they to die before their disobedience?