Contract Question

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by nnorth

I made a decision a year ago not to sign the agreement based solely on the fact hat that I didn't agree with the agreement in it's entirety. I could not honestly sign the contract.

I spoke to my Pastor and he was very understanding. I felt that I could not put him in the awkward situation of making exceptions and resigned my position as a musician.

I believe that it is a matter of the heart and that each member that signs the agreement must be sure that they can comply with the agreement 100% for the entire year.

No disrepect to your pastor,nnorth, let me make that clear... (it sounds like you think well of him, and no one here is trying to put him down, or his convictions)... but the bolded part above -- THAT is a key issue that I think bothers some of the members discussing this here. If a person is a good, spirit filled Christian and ends up being [in effect] forced out of their ministry because they disagree with even just one point in such a contract, is the body of Christ being well served by that?

Frankly, I wish the original poster had used better judgment and wisdom here, and done better to conceal the identity of the church/pastor involved, because I hate that if one comes out expressed disagreement with the content of, or intention behind, this contract, it may be seen as being somewhat directed toward this Pastor in particular. This is a worthy topic for discussion, but revealing [or giving clues to] the name of the pastor and/or church adds noting to the conversation -- in fact, it detracts from it somewhat.

[nnorth]

Originally Posted by Margies3

It's really none of my business, but I am curious as to why you would continue to attend a church that you cannot back 100%??

Your response would be the "common sense" question/response. I must admit the thought has occurred to me. However, I have been taught over the last 30 years that I have been apart of the Church, that I must be sure that I self-examine myself and my beliefs and make sure that they are aligned with God's word and not aligned with my flesh.

It's tough, but when it's my family's eternity in the balance than I must be sure that I'm patient and not be quick to make a knee jerk reaction and just leave.

[Theophil]

[QUOTE=TRFrance;712182]"...No disrepect to your pastor,nnorth, let me make that clear... (it sounds like you think well of him, and no one here is trying to put him down, or his convictions)... but the bolded part above -- THAT is a key issue that I think bothers some of the members discussing this here. If a person is a good, spirit filled Christian and ends up being [in effect] forced out of their ministry because they disagree with even just one point in such a contract, is the body of Christ being well served by that?..."

That gets to the heart of the issue.

[Sam]

I go to a church called The Hamilton Dream Center. The pastor says it is more of a ministry than a church. We do not have members. If we want, we can become a partner by signing an agreement and agreeing to support the church in one or more of the following ways:
by attending,
by financial support,
by participating in outreach

this is the agreement my wife and I have both signed:

PARTNERSHIP AGREEMENT

Covenant partnership is a relationship –-a bond—between two people or parties much like a business relationship. These parties, sharing a common goal or objective, join forces and resources in order to reach their common goal.
In the same way, the Partners of Hamilton Dream Center and its Ministry Team have a common goal: to reach the inner city of Hamilton and give hope to person(s) that are less fortunate. Our message is clear “Jesus is the answer”. And by standing together in faith and prayer, we can reach our part of the world with the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Reaching this world is serious business, so the relationship between the Covenant Partners and the Ministry Team of Hamilton Dream Center is also serious and life changing. It is a bond established by God to fulfill His purposes –-not the Pastor or any of the Ministry Team—but His. It is a way of joining hands and joining forces to do more than we could ever do alone to bring the message of faith and hope to the Body of Christ.
Joining together, each of us brings resources and a supply of God’s anointing into this relationship (Ephesians 4:16) as we continue to successfully proclaim that “Jesus is Lord” from the blocks surrounding Hamilton Dream Center and throughout the community.
The Ministry Team of Hamilton Dream Center is committed to fulfilling these goals and dreams as led by the Holy Spirit. It is our desire to be in-line with His desires.
God’s Word tells us that partnership in ministry is the most powerful relationship on the face of the earth. It is a covenant relationship based on the blood of Jesus. It is a relationship of the highest honor. Consequently, it is a relationship of the highest commitment.
I, ________________________________________, dated___________________________, by signing and dating this agreement pledge to be a partner with Hamilton Dream Center. I will actively participate in one or more ministries within the church. I will strive to be led by the Holy Spirit in carrying out all facets of my partnership to the glory and honor of Jesus, my King and Savior.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Margies3

I'm just curious which trinitarian denominations you are referring to here, Miss B? I've been an active part of the United Methodist Church for a good many years and now for the past 4 years an equally active part of the local Alliance Church and I have never heard of anyone having to sign any document in either denomination in order to be used on the platform or within the church. I'm not saying it's not possible. Just has not been my experience.

Margie, lots of churches require forms to be signed to be a member or to be in ministry. Some churches call it an "application", and they consider you for the membership or job, but it really amounts to the same thing.

Similar to these:

http://hottubreligion.wordpress.com/...ch-membership/

http://www.ccwonline.org/agree.html

This church requires members to fill out an application: http://www.millersvillebiblechurch.o...x.php?pID=2594

http://www.1freechurch.org/Forms/mem...pplication.htm


Some churches just require the leader to sign doctrinal affirmation statements.

In particular, the churches I've encountered specifically who do this are:

Assembly of God
Church of God Holiness
Non-denominational
Apostolic/Pentecostal

In general, it's a pretty common practice, although how it's used will vary from place to place.

Additionally, the deacons or church board of directors are usually required to sign statements regarding their integrity, specifically in regard to confidentiality and finance.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Margies3

It's really none of my business, but I am curious as to why you would continue to attend a church that you cannot back 100%??

Guess folks see this differently than I - I seriously doubt there is any church anywhere that I agree with 100%.... I FIND THAT COMFORTING IN A STRANGE SORT OF WAY.

I have never been tempted to go on a church hunt - to find a perfect place to worship...

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

...
I have never been tempted to go on a church hunt - to find a perfect place to worship...

If you ever found a perfect church, do you think they'd let you in as a member?

[CC1]

Originally Posted by nnorth

Wow! I go to the Church that this contract has originated from. It is disappointing to me, to see some of the reply's concerning PS. PS is Pastoring the Church in the way that he feels God is directing him to do.

I made a decision a year ago not to sign the agreement based solely on the fact hat that I didn't agree with the agreement in it's entirety. I could not honestly sign the contract.

I spoke to my Pastor and he was very understanding. I felt that I could not put him in the awkward situation of making exceptions and resigned my position as a musician.

I believe that it is a matter of the heart and that each member that signs the agreement must be sure that they can comply with the agreement 100% for the entire year.

My wife and I still attend the Church. Even though I really miss being involved I know that it's not right to be on a platform of a Church that I cannot back 100%

I have no idea who posted this message but I hope that they will take the high road and conduct themselves properly.

This is just my opinion.......

nnnnnnnorth,

Welcome to the world of beng a second class Pentecostal! Sounds like you have one of those churches where you are welcome to attend services if you don't toe the extra biblical legalist line but don't expect to particpiate in ministry in any way.

This seems to be the latest trend in the UPC. I guess it is better than making those that don't toe the line feel totally unwelcome but I still find it a strange situation.

On the one hand your salvation is not called into question but on the other you aren't good enough to sing, play an instrument, or teach.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Sam

If you ever found a perfect church, do you think they'd let you in as a member?

Like that old joke, would I even join a church that would have me as a member?

[CAD/JPY]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Ok.
I can see that applying more to the 1 Peter 3 passage (him making a comparison between inner and outer beauty); but in 1 Tim 2;9-10 Paul doesn't seem to be making such a comparison though.

I appreciate your input, however.

Thank you. I would tend to say that both passages work together to give us a clear understanding of what God wants. The theme can be consistently applied as we study other scripture. I would further propose that indeed Paul is making the comparison in verse 10 when he specifies "but what becomes women professing fear of God, through good works".

Then I would ask the reader to consider all the writings from I Tim. 2, specifically verses 8 to 15. Reading them, you will find that one must use other scriptures to understand the writer's intentions....

If I am going to take verse 9 to literally mean no gold, no braided hair, no pearls, and no costly array... then I must also literally take verse 11 "to learn in silence" and verse 12 "suffer not a women to teach" and verse 15 "she shall be saved in childbirth."

Rather I take verse 9 to mean that women should dress in decent clothes with modesty and sensibleness, showing their respect for God through good works. In today's words, look like a Christian, act like a Christian, and separate yourselves from the World through good deeds. Biblical mandates like loving your enemy, praying for them that spitefully use you, turning the other check, etc.