Loren Yadon's: Tragedies of War????

[Innocuous]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

We've all done and said things we regret.

True enough. I've certainly done a few doozies in my time, and the was only yesterday...er...this morning. But, when someone establishes a pattern then there should be some accountability no matter who you are. Throwing people under the bus is the pattern here. LY isn't the only one.

[commonsense]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Barb, loved your post! You should get on the soapbox more often!

The thing is is that Dan calls threestepper's heretics. He has taken on the mantle of those who are divisive amongst the threestepper crowd and now uses it to support the onestepper doctrine in the same divisive manner.

It's really sad we couldn't stay in the same fellowship (UPC) and fellowship the difference because the end result is the same.

I agree with Barb's comments.
I was raised in a PAJC// UPC congregation and had no idea there were any differences between the PCI and PAJC.

First of all, we shouldn't rewrite history

If the UPC founding fathers could be tolerant, who are we to be judge and jury?

[Sweet Pea]

Innoc..... I said I was going to make the one comment and step away - but I will respond to your post.... I don't know why KH said that to you. I'm sure it played [I]some[I] part in the termination; but I really do believe - as one person said.... "LY shot himself in the foot". I personally think if he had followed that simple request, it would not have come down like it did. I could be wrong - I've been wrong before.

[Raven]

I know one thing. I'm friends with both and I wish this whole situation had never happened!

Raven

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

.... "LY shot himself in the foot". I personally think if he had followed that simple request, it would not have come down like it did. I could be wrong - I've been wrong before.

If KH owned the school he had every right to censor or control what was taught by the staff. If LY knew the current rules he was just asking for trouble.

[SDG]

The political pressures ... regardless of the "final straw" came from the AS and then the subsequent "suicide" sermon that resulted in KH's colleagues putting inordinate pressure on him to act .... there were letters, calls for his resignation , THREATS TO PULL OUT OF CLC... by ministerial colleagues. A bloodthirst for DISFELLOWSHIP.

This culture is steeped in group dynamics and peer pressure ... it dictates so much that is done and not done.

To pretend the firing happened in a box ... is definitely damage control.

Everyone will have a different twist what brought it down ... but it was the divisiveness of the era that made this happen ... and a dishonoring of a gentlemen's agreement made in 1945.

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by Raven

I know one thing. I'm friends with both and I wish this whole situation had never happened!

Raven

DITTO and AMEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SDG]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Barb, loved your post! You should get on the soapbox more often!

The thing is is that Dan calls threestepper's heretics. He has taken on the mantle of those who are divisive amongst the threestepper crowd and now uses it to support the onestepper doctrine in the same divisive manner.

It's really sad we couldn't stay in the same fellowship (UPC) and fellowship the difference because the end result is the same.

I called your doctrine of repentance + baptism as heretical, Mizpeh. Of which you have labeled yourself as a heretic. Don't play martyr ... woman up and grab a Kleenex.

Now .... it does seem that your agenda is to paint with the brush of false witness making this thread about Dan ...

The mantel of the 1990's 3 stepper crowd is one of disfellowship, Mizpeh and it's still around today ... see WPF.

The difference is I can think your baptismal regenerationist view that you support with "pagan" Catholic thinkers that you dogmatically refute on their views of the Godhead ... but parade to support BR doctrine ... is PATENTLY false ... but I consider you a sister in Christ and will fellowship you...

Nor, like you, do I dismiss those in the blood bought Body of Christ ... as going to hell ... "let God be their judge" (the catchphrase) .... because they haven't followed your equational formula or experienced tongues ...

Your doctrine by definition disfellowships most of the Body ...

add standards and that pretty much ... makes you, Mizzy, a backslidden Apostolic sympathizer.

Deal w/ the facts. Not aspersions ....

Signed ... NOT THE WOLF IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING ...

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I called your doctrine of repentance + baptism as heretical, Mizpeh. Of which you have labeled yourself as a heretic. Don't play martyr.

Dan, it only stands to reason that if you call the doctrine heretical then those who believe that doctrine are heretics. Don't play coy, Dan.

Now your agenda is to paint with the brush of false witness ... The mantel of the 1990's 3 stepper crowd is one of disfellowship, Mizpeh and it's still around today ... see WPF.

This mantle (or spirit of division) is the same one in the 1990's 3 stepper crowd, the WPF crowd, and the one you are exhibiting when you call your brother/sister a heretic. Literally, Dan, you are being played by a demonic spirit.

The difference is I can think your baptismal regenerationist view that you support with pagan Catholic thinkers that you dogmatically refute on their views of the Godhead ... but parade to support BR doctrine ... is PATENTLY false ... but I consider you a sister in Christ and will fellowship you...

I feel the same way about you, Dan. We are both part of the body of Christ because we both have been baptized into Christ and made to drink of His Spirit.

Nor, like you, do I dismiss those in the Body of Christ ... as going to hell ... "let God be their judge" because they haven't followed your equational formula.

That's big of you, Dan. Now, who's casting aspersions?

Deal w/ the facts. Not aspersions ....

The fact is you called me a heretic again but will not admit it. I'm over it, Dan, and have been over it for a long time.

I won't keep up a tit for tat dialogue with you on this. I pointed something out which I find ironic. Take it any way you like but I wish you would take it with much thoughtfulness and prayer. You don't want to become the thing you hate.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Literally, Dan, you are being played by a demonic spirit.

Played with by a demonic spirit??? Literally???

Nice.Textbook.

Now this tells me all I need to know ... about continuing any discourse with you.

You continue to play martyr and continue to use aspersions like wolf in sheeps clothing and demonically influenced to marginalize ....

Shameful and degrading ... and rooted in BITTERNESS over a thread that "you got over" yet reference incessantly.

You want hyper-spirtualize these discussions ... go ahead. Even if logic and decorum escape you.

I totally understand the love and emotionalism you have for your paradigm.

I will consider your thoughts and ask you consider your root of bitterness ....

knowing that after being a former atheist and being faced with the facts and even the Word .... perhaps your paradigm that dates to last century has doctrinal flaws ..... can be impossible to reconcile in your own mind.

I wonder if your faith can stretch, Mizzy.