Race Based Government?

[ChTatum]

TR France, you just can't prove your assertion that Michelle Malkin is a racist. It's time to either retract or lose credibility.

Your choice.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Except real martyrs don't deal in baseless name calling. You need to really listen to the Lord and stop talking so much. I can only fear the outcome if you pursue all of your relationships this way. Forgive me for not taking your sudden spirituality seriously.

Exodus 23:1-7; Leviticus 19:11; Psalm 35:11; Psalm 45:5-9; Isaiah 66:5; Luke 3:14; Luke 7:33-34; 2 Timothy 3:1-7.

I personally like this one: ...speak evil of no man...Titus 3:2 It's simple and to the point.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Perhaps if you didnt think quite so highly of yourself, you and I would get along better.

Funny, you tell me I'm talking too much, but 1/ you're the one who seems to insist on alway having the last word here...And 2/ you're the one who wanted to make a federal case out of all this in the first place, "challenging" and demanding "proof", and going on and on, with your quixotic quest to stick up for that "girl" Michelle Malkin... because you didnt like the fact that I'm among those who consider Malkin to be racist.

If you want "the last word" just give me the promised examples of her making racist statements.

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I gave you a brief overview of why I thought so, and suggested you look into it to form your own opinion. You came back and started this stuff about how you're not convinced, and how I hadnt "proved it" ,etc. And what I said to you , repeatedly, is that it is a subjective matter, and there is no single quote or instance I can provide you that you would consider to be definitive proof... but that this was an opinion I've reached after observing pattern of her writings, interviews and even her associations for quite a while. (<----I didnt think that was so hard to understand or accept). I thought I was entitled to my opinion anyway, but apparently that wasnt enough for you, and so since I didnt provide the "proof" you demanded, thus began your quixotic quest to "stick up for" the "girl" who I had made this "odious charge" against .

You said you had proof - you gave me a specific Google search that didn't even have a single quote or page by Malkin. I pointed out the emptiness of your "proof" and suddenly I became the "bad guy."

I've seen you play this game with other posters. You make hollow and acerbic charges and when someone questions you or challenges you - you suddenly decry their impudence for daring to question so august an authority as yourself.

Originally Posted by TRFrance

We could have simply agreed to disagree, and moved on... but you're the one who kept going on and on, like a grandstanding prosecutor. You could have pushed the "OFF" button a long time ago, but clearly you felt like prolonging the merry go round for whatever reason. You seem to be someone who doesnt know when to just take your foot off the gas pedal, and bring things down a notch or two.

Actually, looking back at this thread - one which I'm sure most folks have abandoned long ago - I see you continually coming back and beating your dead horse. Why don't you just let that dead horse alone? You keep saying Malikin's a racist but you offer no examples and no proof. Your charges are hollow and appear to be false accusations.

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I've had conversations with many, many people on this forum. And at times they and I have disagreed strongly on a variety of issues, from religion to politics. Yet there remains mutual respect between me and them, even if we ended having to disagree on various matters.

Sadly, I've found you to be one of the rudest, most obnoxious persons I've run across here on AFF. And at times I've seen you display a boorishness and cockiness that I would normally only expect to see on the secular forums I'm a part of. However, when your rudeness is pointed out to you, always seem to brush it aside as if it's unimportant, or as if the other person is being "a martyr", or they're "too sensitive", or whatever.

I suppose I should ask for examples where "when your rudeness is pointed out to you, always seem to brush it aside as if it's unimportant" but with you, I know where that'll get me. LOL.

Calling someone a "racist" isn't rude? You played one of the very worst cards in the deck there, in my opinion. Racism is so absurd, petty and stupidly mean that I can't abide it. It's a very important issue for me.

But by making such a baseless charge you have set the standard for rudeness. And when others on AFF have pointed out the short comings in posts where you stoop to groundless accusations and name calling in the past you always seem to respond by throwing a pity party.

Originally Posted by TRFrance

You seem to not know how to talk to people right .

Okay let me follow your example and use the "people skills" you have displayed: You don't like Michelle Malkin because she's a Filipino and you're a racist.

Again, is that a fair charge? I don't think so, but that's how you play the game. Then, when someone cries "foul!" you fold and complain that they're picking on you.

I think my problem here is that I don't know how to talk to you "right." I don't accept your false accusations at face value, I ask too many questions, I rock your boat.

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I dont think I've ever seen you be apologetic, or voluntarily concilatory toward anyone after butting heads with them on here. Its as if you feel you need to "win", to prove yourself right, or to nail the other person to the wall to show them just how wrong you think they are (and I'm not just taking about me -- I've seen you in action with other posters too. This seems to be a recurring issue with you).. You clearly have no problem being gratuitously abrasive and/or antagonistic if you feel like it.

http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/sho...8&postcount=27 - click the link.

I'll eat crow when I have to. Personally, I believe it's good for you. And no, I don't have to be right; but I want to understand and to know what is right and accurate. I often rejoice when I'm shown to be wrong because the correction opens up so many new avenues of thought on an issue.

That's why I asked first about your claim. You then appear to have suffered apoplexy that someone would dare challenge your assertions and the game was on.

Originally Posted by TRFrance

So to see you questioning my so-called "sudden spirituality" , and telling me to "listen to the Lord", is downright laughable. There are some people here on AFF who, if they were to admonish me for something I say or do here, I'd respect their words and take it to heart. But you of all people are the last one to who should question anyone's spirituality. In my view, you just don't have the credibility.

When you learn how to speak to people with that "right spirit" you refer to, even when you disagree with them, maybe your words will have greater value. Meanwhile, you can quote as many scriptures as you want... It means nothing to me, coming from you.

So then, in the future you will refrain from making false accusations? See Exodus 23:1. It's a big deal to me and I will challenge you every time.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by ChTatum

TR France, you just can't prove your assertion that Michelle Malkin is a racist. It's time to either retract or lose credibility.

Your choice.

My opinion that Malkin is a racist is just as valid as someone else's opinion that someone like Al Sharpton is a racist, (a view that I know many people have).

The have their reasons for thinking he's a racist. And they're entitled to that view.

I have my reasons for thinking she's a racist. And I'm entitled to that view also.

I have no reason to retract anything.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

My opinion that Malkin is a racist is just as valid as someone else's opinion that someone like Al Sharpton is a racist, (a view that I know many people have).

The have their reasons for thinking he's a racist. And they're entitled to that view.

I have my reasons for thinking she's a racist. And I'm entitled to that view also.

I have no reason to retract anything.

And you have demonstrated that you really had no reason to make the charges against Malkin that you did.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Again,

You said you had proof -

That is an untrue statement. (#1)

Where did I say this?
Never said it.
Find it and quote it for us here right now, or lose credibility.

YOU are the one who keeps taking about me not providing "proof". I've never claimed to have anything that could be considered "proof". In fact, anyone paying attention here will see that I've said over and over and over and over, that it's an opinion based on observation-- based on reading and listening to a lot of her words on race-related issues over several years.

Originally Posted by pelathais

.
Again,

You said you had proof - you gave me a specific Google search that didn't even have a single quote or page by Malkin. I pointed out the emptiness of your "proof" and suddenly I became the "bad guy."

Untrue again. (#2)

I never said the google search was supposed to be "proof" of anything.
It was simply a quick for you to look up if you wanted to look into it yourself, to get an idea of what people have said on the internet regarding her and her racial sentiments.

Before you go trying to slam someone, you probably should have your facts lined up. The facts are not on your side on this. Here is what I said:

Originally Posted by pelathais

When I started googling for some other info on her, I became even more convinced. I haven't paid much attention to her since then.

But that's one man's opinion.
If you like, just google: "michelle malkin" racist
...and draw your own conclusions.

I thought these 2 implications were pretty clear there...
1/ I was making it known it was simply my opinion, and
2/ I sent you a link to look up information on the topic if you'd like, so you could draw your own conclusions, and decide for yourself.

I'm beginning to think that your improper reading/understanding of what I said is what led you to take your first wrong turn in all this.

Nowhere did I say that that google search was "proof". That was in your mind only.

I simply gave you a google search for you to look and form your own opinion, since you seemed as if you might be interested in the topic.

Originally Posted by pelathais

If you want "the last word" just give me the promised examples of her making racist statements.

Another untrue statement. (#3)

(another hit to your credibility)

It's amazing how you're so fast-and-loose with the facts. Doesn't truth and accuracy matter to you??

I never promised any such examples.

Any such "promised examples" are in your own mind. I challenge you AGAIN right now to show where I promised any such thing.

Please stop distorting my words. Your credibility keeps taking a hit when your words are exposed as being untrue.

Originally Posted by pelathais

Calling someone a "racist" isn't rude?

Not if the person who says it has good reason to firmly believe it's true.

For example, I've heard people say they consider Al Sharpton to be racist. I'm not convinced that he is, but if someone has that opinion of him, I dont consider it to be rude.

The might be wrong, but they're not "rude" by stating that as being their opinion of a man who is a public figure.

Now, if someone just throws an accusation or suggestion out there like that ,just for kicks, then it could be rude... like if someone were to just say:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Is it unfair for me to speculate that maybe you don't like Filipinos?

Originally Posted by pelathais

But by making such a baseless charge you have set the standard for rudeness. .

It's not a baseless charge if it's based on personal observation. What part of that are you having trouble with?

Originally Posted by pelathais

I've seen you play this game with other posters. You make hollow and acerbic charges and when someone questions you or challenges you - you suddenly decry their impudence for daring to question so august an authority as yourself.

....But by making such a baseless charge you have set the standard for rudeness. And when others on AFF have pointed out the short comings in posts where you stoop to groundless accusations and name calling in the past you always seem to respond by throwing a pity party.

...Again, is that a fair charge? I don't think so, but that's how you play the game. Them when someone cries "foul!" you fold and complain that they're picking on you.

...That's why I asked first about your claim. You then appear to have suffered apoplexy that someone would dare challenge your assertions and the game was on.

(sigh...) (You really need to pray, brother... Seriously)

What absolute, utter hogwash. Not true at all.

You can "challenge" me all day long if you want, I dont care.

Apparently you've made the "defend Michelle Malkin" your pet project for some reason... But with the Malkin thing, I've said to you repeatedly that you're just asking for something that I've simply told you is not available to give in the way that you seem to be demanding it.

I simply said to you over and over (I'll say it again here, since it's not sinking in) that because it is a subjective matter, in the absence of a definitive quote that anyone can provide you that you would consider to be definitive "proof"...this ("such as: I hate Latinos", etc)... then all a person can do is give you their reasons for why they believe this concerning her, based on an observable pattern seen over the years in her interviews, writings, and her previous association with VDare.

^^^ I don't know if I can say that any plainer.

Originally Posted by pelathais

I think my problem here is that I don't know how to talk to you "right." I don't accept your false accusations at face value, I ask too many questions, I rock your boat.

(Yeah, of course you do; I'm an intellectual dwarf compared to you, buddy)

You rock my boat?
Seriously, you definitely think too highly of yourself.

I would certainly never accuse you of being too modest.

Originally Posted by pelathais

So then, in the future you will refrain from making false accusations?

False accusations? really?
(Wow... so now you've been able to determine that such an opinion of her is false? How did you factually determine that? Or was that just an opinion you formed, just as I formed mine.)

You cant prove that it's false, any more than anyone could prove to you that it's true.
It's not a false accusation. It's an informed opinion, one which you happen to disagree with. There's a big difference.

Furthermore, my view that she's a racist is just as valid as YOUR OWN view that Louis Farrakhan is a racist, since --> RIGHT HERE <--you acknowledged that you consider him to be just that.

Based on your own standard, a supporter of Farrakhan could state that YOU are making a false, odious accusation against him (...since Farrakhan has never called himself a racist, Nor said he hates white people or any other particular race.) See, once you decide to become the Speech Police, your very same standard can be used against you.

Just like "beauty"....a person's racism/bigotry/prejudice is in the eyes of the beholder. But that's something you seem to be unwilling to accept or acknowledge. If you did, we wouldn't even be on this merry-go-round in the first place.

Originally Posted by pelathais

See Exodus 23:1. It's a big deal to me and I will challenge you every time.

Ex 23:1?
(nice)...You're quoting scripture to me? Please!!
How about finding the scripture about not defaming your brother??

I've already shown you multiple inaccuracies in your post, above. If you really cared about truth and accuracy as much as you claim, I wouldnt have had to point out and correct your multiple misrepresentations and distortions of what I said, as I had to do earlier in this post.

Frankly, you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Originally Posted by pelathais

I'll eat crow when I have to. Personally, I believe it's good for you. And no, I don't have to be right; but I want to understand and to know what is right and accurate.

That would be interesting to see. Earlier in this post I've shown you a couple of untrue statements you've made about what I've said.

You said that I said I had "proof"... and that I had "promised examples" to you --both those assertions are untrue.

You have grossly misrepresented my words. If you cant provide the information I challenged you to show to back up those statements, then feel free to acknowledge that what you stated was incorrect.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by pelathais

And you have demonstrated that you really had no reason to make the charges against Malkin that you did.

I had no reason?

Wow. This just gets dumber and dumber.

I explained my reasons.

Maybe after you take your blinders off you'll go back and see again for yourself where I did that.

You just didnt feel "convinced" by my reasons...
and you had this almost delusional idea that I had an obligation to "convince" you.

You're getting kinda boring now with this, Pel.
You really need to let this go...

You're obsessed with this.

[pelathais]

More prevarications from TRF. You made the inflammatory charge, TRFrance, now back it up. I have tried to help you see the inherent bigotry in your attitudes here, but reality still eludes you.

Produce the examples of racism by Michelle Malkin. It's gotta be easy. You said she's been "race baiting" for years.

I said, "I can't find anything like that..." Now put me in my place and give me some examples of Michelle Malkin's racism and "race baiting."

Al Sharpton was on national television in the 1990's saying things like, "Burn the Jew Store down!" and "I'm gonna get that cracker..." and you don't find that racist in the least?

Can you find such quotes by Malkin? Nope - we just need to feel sorry for you because mean ol' Pel keeps asking for you to substantiate your inflammatory accusations.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I had no reason?

Wow. This just gets dumber and dumber.

I explained my reasons.

Maybe after you take your blinders off you'll go back and see again for yourself where I did that.

You just didnt feel "convinced" by my reasons...
and you had this almost delusional idea that I had an obligation to "convince" you.

You're getting kinda boring now with this, Pel.
You really need to let this go...

You're obsessed with this.

Actually I'm waiting to see what you do. You've made the false charge. You've excused blatant racism. What's wrong with you? Don't you get out much? Breath some fresh air. Get away from those annoying women and brown people. Relax, learn to enjoy life.

And then you'll be refreshed and ready to attack the Jews in your neighborhood, just like your buddy Al Sharpton drove them out of his.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Actually I'm waiting to see what you do. You've made the false charge. You've excused blatant racism. What's wrong with you? Don't you get out much? Breath some fresh air. Get away from those annoying women and brown people. Relax, learn to enjoy life.

And then you'll be refreshed and ready to attack the Jews in your neighborhood, just like your buddy Al Sharpton drove them out of his.

This is so sad.

Lord, touch this man's mind, and his spirit, in Jesus' name.

Originally Posted by pelathais

More prevarications from TRF. You made the inflammatory charge, TRFrance, now back it up. I have tried to help you see the inherent bigotry in your attitudes here, but reality still eludes you.

Produce the examples of racism by Michelle Malkin. It's gotta be easy. You said she's been "race baiting" for years.

I said, "I can't find anything like that..." Now put me in my place and give me some examples of Michelle Malkin's racism and "race baiting."

Al Sharpton was on national television in the 1990's saying things like, "Burn the Jew Store down!" and "I'm gonna get that cracker..." and you don't find that racist in the least?

Can you find such quotes by Malkin? Nope - we just need to feel sorry for you because mean ol' Pel keeps asking for you to substantiate your inflammatory accusations.

(First of all, your Sharpton "quotes" aren't even accurate quotes. Not that it even matters at this point. I'm not a fan of the guy, so that's beside the point. But it just shows again that accuracy only seems to matters to you when it suits you. But that being said...)

Let's see... I go point by point in that last post, specifically showing you your inaccurate statements, and showing how you quite plainly either mistook and/or misrepresented my words... and you choose not to respond and even acknowledge how you have misrepresented my views.... but instead, THIS foolishness is what you come up with?

Once again you prove that fairness and accuracy really don't mean that much to you.

All I can say is, based on your what I've observed of you here, in my opinion your conduct has been utterly shameful, and I consider you to be one of the worst examples of a Christian I've seen in some time. (The sad and scary part is, you don't seem to think there's anything wrong. I honestly feel sorry for you.)

You clearly need to go spend some time with the Lord.
And also learn what the word humility means... since you clearly think more highly of yourself than you ought to.

Have a good night.


P.S.
If you feel like ignoring me from now on, I'm ok with that.
I think for the foreseeable future, it's best for you to stay over in your lane, and I'll stay in mine.