Could Barak Obama be the Anti Christ?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by aak1972

I have to disagree. If I remember correctly didnt John write Revelations while castaway?

He was in a prison island called Patmos.

Also he mentions early in the book that he fell into a deep sleep and seen these things, not remembering things Jesus has preached.

No, that is not in the book of Revelation.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Brother Blume,
Can you put a little more detail into the significance of the "stones being overthrown"? It is my understanding that the Jews hid or stored their gold here and that is why the stones were overthrown - to extract the gold.

I cannot find a reference for this.

The temple was overlaid with gold, and when the fires burned the temple, the gold melted and seeped between the stones. According to history. in order to retrieve the gold, the Romans had to literally overturn every stone.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Shag, I know what history tells us. 70 AD happened. But saying that this event was the ultimate fulfillment of "what shall be the sign of thy coming and of the end of the world?" falls short.

As I showed, if you compare Luke and Mark's accounts of Matthew 24's conversation, you find that the SIGN OF THY COMING is one and the same SIGN WHEN THESE THINGS SHALL COME TO PASS> And THESE THINGS are referring to the temple destruction.

This means HE CAME when the temple was destroyed. It was a coming not for the rapture, but only a localized coming in judgment.

Now, we have to THINK to follow that, carefully. Read it again and let it sink into your mind.

Did Jesus come as a result? Did the rapture take place? Did the world come to an end?

Why do you say the rapture occurs when the coming of Matt 24 occurs? On what grounds are you saying that? Are you presuming that into the text?

I noted above that comparison of the synoptic gospels shows that Matt 24's SIGN OF THY COMING is rephrased from the same conversation in Mark and Luke as SIGN WHEN THESE THINGS SHALL COME TO PASS. What are THESE THINGS? Read Mark 13 and Luke 21 and see that THESE THINGS refer to the temple destruction. This coming, therefore, is not the rapture!

Did "armies" surround Jerusalem or did an army, the Roman army surround Jeru in 70 AD?

Rome had MANY ARMIES.

Zechariah talks of a Jerusalem that would be a cup of trembling to all nations and that He would return to defend her. Did that happen in 70 AD?

Yes! You must understand Rome was a world power that had many nations in the empire over which Rome ruled.

Never before could these prophecies be fulfilled for 1900 years until 1948.

Not from the perspective of your perceptual grid, no. You are reading this verses and re-translating them by what psychologists call a person's perceptual grid, and that grid did not come from the bible, but tradition. It's like trinitarians reading "God" and translating that in their minds to TRINITY and THREE PERSONS. The bible did not say "trinity" nor "three persons", but something trained their thoughts to translate GOD into trinity and three persons.

You do the same thing with "COMING" What about Matt 21:40? Is that coming the rapture? No!

Matthew 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

Every time we read about Jesus coming, are we supposed to think "rapture"? Of course not. Yes, there will be a rapture, but Matt 24 does not speak of it.

It is a coming of destruction, which is what I claim Matthew 24 is about.

The potential for the world to come against Israel and Jerusalem is now a reality. The potential for a rebuilt Temple, for multinational armies taking action against individual nations, for global economies and a universal means to buy and sell, for global religion is here like never before.

70 AD happened. Jesus coming back didn't.

I disagree.

The idea of global economy and universal means to buy and sell is a mistaken notion through making the error that the mark of the beast is about physical buying and selling and not satan's answer to God's ways as shown in Rev 3 where Jesus spoke of buying gold tried in the fire.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shag

deacon blues,

I don't know jack didley about Zachariah and a cup of trembling, I'll look into it tho. I appreciate all you have to say concerning this subject, as I intend to try to find anwers to as many unanswered questions(that I have) as I can.

In my understanding,it seems to me that since the Temple building stones not being left on one another, did happen, as I believe you agree, in ad70, it must have been the fullfillment of scripture. If all the "signs" listed after speaking of the stones, were the prelude signs to know the "stone leveling" was come to pass, whether we saw the signs or not, the stones of the building got leveled, so wouldn't the "unstanding stones" be evidence/proof of the fullfillment of the signs listed afterwards in scripture?

Right. Matt 24 says that the generation to see the temple destruction would not pass til all the events listed occurred. The temple destruction was part of the ALL THESE THINGS. That means, if the temple was destroyed in AD70, then the generation of that day also saw the rest of the events.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The generation here would not just see PART of these things, but ALL OF THEM. And I do not think anyone is still alive who saw the temple destroyed in AD70!

No generation since then who did not see the temple destruction can be the generation of Matt 24:34. Aside from all of that, Jesus looked at the people of that day and said, "THIS generation," meaning that one way back then.

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

I wonder why Luther nor Calvin ever wrote commentaries on Revelation?

If Obama is the anti-Christ then maybe TD Jakes is his prophet? Hmmmm? Maybe? TIC.

I take that back. After reading threads like this I DO understand why Luther and Calvin both stated that Revelation was incomprehensible and why both brilliant minds refused to do commentaries on the book. Perhaps all this is more a hermeneutical exercise than it is really understanding what the book is really meant to do for us.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

I take that back. After reading threads like this I DO understand why Luther and Calvin both stated that Revelation was incomprehensible and why both brilliant minds refused to do commentaries on the book. Perhaps all this is more a hermeneutical exercise than it is really understanding what the book is really meant to do for us.

A person has to cut through so much traditional thinking where men's minds are locked down without consideration of anything else, that it is rare to ever be able to get to the point of the purpose of the book.

I do know Luther thought Revelation was not inspired of God, though.

[shag]

Originally Posted by mfblume

A person has to cut through so much traditional thinking where men's minds are locked down without consideration of anything else, that it is rare to ever be able to get to the point of the purpose of the book.

I do know Luther thought Revelation was not inspired of God, though.

It seems I've had to start back at level ground, on several things, this has been just another.

About ten years ago I asked my Pastor about the last verse in Matt.16, verse 28 : Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

I said how can that be?

He jokingly said "their gettin to be a pretty ripe old age by now aren't they".

I dearly love and respect that Pastor, but that "lack of answer" he gave has haunted me since then, untill I'm just recently coming to a better understanding, I believe.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shag

It seems I've had to start back at level ground, on several things, this has been just another.

About ten years ago I asked my Pastor about the last verse in Matt.16, verse 28 : Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

I said how can that be?

He jokingly said "their gettin to be a pretty ripe old age by now aren't they".

I dearly love and respect that Pastor, but that "lack of answer" he gave has haunted me since then, untill I'm just recently coming to a better understanding, I believe.

That is the key. To be able to stop and look at ALL we have been taught, and how much we know that is solidly found in scripture, and how much we believe because someone handed it to us and we accepted it, is so important to truly know truth. I did that very thing about prophecy and it was not long before I dropped the popular pre-trib rapture belief. That was the first to go! I have never seen a belief that is so assumed and full of groundless presumptions about scriptures than the pre trib rapture belief.

We should not be afraid to question what we've been taught.

Also, a true belief will not be secret and unknown. MANY others must witness of it, as well.

And another important thing is that we must ensure we do not cast away a belief without having first checked it out, in case it was one of the truths the Lord urged us to buy and sell not.

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by mfblume

A person has to cut through so much traditional thinking where men's minds are locked down without consideration of anything else, that it is rare to ever be able to get to the point of the purpose of the book.

.

Perhaps the purpose of the book is much more broad than we try to make it through our eschatological hermeneutics. Perhaps we've read much more meaning into symbolism and figurative speech and apocalyptic imagery than we were ever meant to by God.

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by shag

It seems I've had to start back at level ground, on several things, this has been just another.

About ten years ago I asked my Pastor about the last verse in Matt.16, verse 28 : Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

I said how can that be?

He jokingly said "their gettin to be a pretty ripe old age by now aren't they".

I dearly love and respect that Pastor, but that "lack of answer" he gave has haunted me since then, untill I'm just recently coming to a better understanding, I believe.

The Kingdom was, is, and is coming. It is and isn't yet. It is inbreaking into history and won't be fully realized until that Day.

I haven't read all the posts on this thread so perhaps my comments are redundant. If so, sorry.