Why the antagonism towards Holiness?

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by holinesspk

I dont mean to seem like I have an agenda on here, I really dont, nor do I wish to seem like I am beating a dead horse, but I got to thinking while reading responses to another thread I posted about the holiness people article.

I guess I really dont understand the antagonism towards holiness standards. I have heard everything from it being just rules, to it being dictatorship, etc. A lot of people hate standards. They preach against it, they disfellowship over it, they mock it, etc. Why? Standards are simply there to keep us out of hell. Some will say its forced on them. Well maybe it is. But here is something to think about. I would rather do to much, than not enough. For instance, our family does not believe in going to restaurants that serve alcohol. Its a conviction we have. My point here is that I would rather Jesus tell me that wasnt necessary, than to tell me it was and I failed. There isnt anything worth missing Heaven over. Not one thing. I dont think many people get that concept.

And this isnt directed at anyone in particular, but if not giving up your tv is worth missing Heaven over, be my guest. If hollywood, jewelry, immodesty, and holiness in general are worth missing heaven over, be my guest. My goal is Heaven, and if that means I give up things here on earth, and the pleasures of this world (which incidentally only last a season), then so be it. There is NOTHING worth missing Heaven over. God may tell us, that we went above and beyond what He expected, but I would rather hear that, than hear that we didnt do enough.

I would so much rather having to say "Man, I could have had a television, look at what shows I missed!" while sitting around the throne of God.....than to be burning in Hell and screaming "Why did I ever have a television? Its not worth this!!"

I dont scare easy, but there is one thing that scares me so bad, I could cry. That is the possibilty of hearing Jesus say, "I do not know you, depart from me ye worker of iniquity." That scares me a lot. I dont say that for dramatic effect, I mean it. It just, well..........terrifies me. I would rather be well over the line on the side I need to be on, than so close to the line, that its an iffy.

I guess thats what I dont get. Holiness is there for our protection. Its a hedge God has provided for us. Standards are there to prevent infiltration from the pits of Hell. And yet, people, and even on here, they mock it, they make fun of it, call it old fashioned, they preach like a saint and live like the devil. It scares me honestly brothers and sisters. The Bible says without holiness, no man shall see God. Holiness is more than just an inward experience. Its like the Holy Ghost, if you get it on the inside, it will show on the outside. Its like the words of that old song.

"Jesus on the inside,
Working on the outside,
OH, what a change in my life!"

We need to check ourselves if we are mocking standards. I am sure the devil really enjoys that. Do some standards go overboard? Yes they do, BUT if obeying it means you are that much closer to heaven, is it really so bad? I want to be as strict as I can get, because God honors those who try to consecrate their lives for Him. Is a little discomfort really comparable to the glory ahead? I know I am probably rambling, but this just really bothers me. I dont get mad, when I hear some loopy person mock holiness...........it scares me for them. They think they are gonna strut in the pearly gates looking like the rest of the world. Lord have mercy.

(Matthew 5:20 KJV) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I dont know about you, but that frightens me. They were so strict, they could not work, cook, walk to far, carry any load, had to dress a certain way, many activities were banned, they all knew their torah from cover to cover, they were the religious leadership of the day. They were a very holy group of people. We always label them as the bad guys, big mean faced, bushy bearded monsters crying out "crucify Him!!". In reality, they were the ministers of God. They worked in the Temple, studied His word, trained and taught God's people in His ways, etc. They were good, misguided, but good people. Very holy people, and God said that except OUR righteousness EXCEED theirs, we shall in no case enter into the kingdom of Heaven. Does that not move anyone? I pray for our generation. We mock the very thing that protects us. God help us!

Dear Bro. I can tell that you are sincere. I also know where you are coming from, I was there. I used all the cliche's that I was taught. I spoke the words and wore the clothing to 'get into heaven.' But upon my own studies in MY walk with God I found things are different.

God requires Holiness, no doubt, but God does not require a 'holy standard' or 'holy dress code' men and women do that. Nothing is wrong with having standards in your life. Standards are a great thing. When I am talking standards I am not talk about dress code set forth by a preacher. I am talking about standards one sets in their lives that keep them from falling away. I always give this analogy. It is like bowling. If you have ever bowled with and with out gutter-guards this will make sense. In order to bowl you do not need gutter-guards, but gutter-guards are designed as barriers in order to keep you from going to far and getting into the gutter. One can bowl with out the guards and do fine, but no matter how much of an expert a person can be at bowling there is ALWAYS a greater chance of them ending in a gutter without the guards in place than there is with the guards there.

The guards in the anaolgy are similar to standards. Having standards are benefitial. They are not required to play. In oder to play you pay the cost and have the equipment needed, but one can play with the guards and without. Always remember that with guards and without guards you are going in the same direction (towards to goal/pins) just with guards it is safer so it is easier to score, but they are NOT required inorder to score. The fact is that gutter-guards can slow you down enough where you don't reach the full scoring potential. Whether you play with guards or with out the games goal is the same, win the game, knock down all the pins, obtain the goal.

Standards are not required to play the game, but the can be beneifitial if you have trouble staying on course.

[Withdrawn]

I think bowling is evil and sinful.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by jaamez

I think bowling is evil and sinful.

All organized sports except for College and NFL football are evil and sinful.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by CC1

All organized sports except for College and NFL football are evil and sinful.

What if they are disorganized? What if we move second base towards first base reducing the distance to first and increasing the distance to third. Is that enough disorder to qualify?

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by CC1

All organized sports except for College and NFL football are evil and sinful.

I didn't realize those were exceptions. Thanks for letting me know.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

What if they are disorganized? What if we move second base towards first base reducing the distance to first and increasing the distance to third. Is that enough disorder to qualify?

I am sorry but the only possible exception is Curling. (based on the fact everyone is heavily clothed and there are no crowds)

[CC1]

Originally Posted by jaamez

I didn't realize those were exceptions. Thanks for letting me know.

That is what I am here for!

[AmericanAngel]

Originally Posted by holinesspk

I dont mean to seem like I have an agenda on here, I really dont, nor do I wish to seem like I am beating a dead horse, but I got to thinking while reading responses to another thread I posted about the holiness people article.
Yes, you do!

I guess I really dont understand the antagonism towards holiness standards.
It's only agony to you because some don't agree with you! LOL

I have heard everything from it being just rules, to it being dictatorship, etc. A lot of people hate standards. They preach against it, they disfellowship over it, they mock it, etc. Why? Standards are simply there to keep us out of hell.
I disagree.
Some will say its forced on them. Well maybe it is. But here is something to think about. I would rather do to much, than not enough.
Acually, that sounds very Phariseeacal to me

For instance, our family does not believe in going to restaurants that serve alcohol. Its a conviction we have.
Do you realise that you could have been used of God as a witness?!

My point here is that I would rather Jesus tell me that wasnt necessary, than to tell me it was and I failed. There isnt anything worth missing Heaven over. Not one thing. I dont think many people get that concept.

And this isnt directed at anyone in particular, but if not giving up your tv is worth missing Heaven over, be my guest. If hollywood, jewelry, immodesty, and holiness in general are worth missing heaven over, be my guest. My goal is Heaven, and if that means I give up things here on earth, and the pleasures of this world (which incidentally only last a season), then so be it. There is NOTHING worth missing Heaven over. God may tell us, that we went above and beyond what He expected, but I would rather hear that, than hear that we didnt do enough.
More rules? For salvation? Phariseeical dude!

I would so much rather having to say "Man, I could have had a television, look at what shows I missed!" while sitting around the throne of God.....than to be burning in Hell and screaming "Why did I ever have a television? Its not worth this!!"
Give us some credit NOT to WATCH IT! LOL I like CNN and FOX and the Animal Planet and, and ....

I dont scare easy, but there is one thing that scares me so bad, I could cry. That is the possibilty of hearing Jesus say, "I do not know you, depart from me ye worker of iniquity." That scares me a lot. I dont say that for dramatic effect, I mean it. It just, well..........terrifies me. I would rather be well over the line on the side I need to be on, than so close to the line, that its an iffy.

I guess thats what I dont get. Holiness is there for our protection.
No, people still fall away even when they have lived Holiness Standards and pointed the finger(as you are) at others who fail your ideals. I know this is possible.

Its a hedge God has provided for us. Standards are there to prevent infiltration from the pits of Hell. And yet, people, and even on here, they mock it, they make fun of it, call it old fashioned, they preach like a saint and live like the devil. It scares me honestly brothers and sisters.
I'm sorry that it scares you. It's not mocking, brother, just opinon.

The Bible says without holiness, no man shall see God. Holiness is more than just an inward experience. Its like the Holy Ghost, if you get it on the inside, it will show on the outside. Its like the words of that old song.

"Jesus on the inside,
Working on the outside,
OH, what a change in my life!"
Really? Maybe yuou have seperated yourself so much that .......never mind.

We need to check ourselves if we are mocking standards. I am sure the devil really enjoys that. Do some standards go overboard? Yes they do, BUT if obeying it means you are that much closer to heaven, is it really so bad? I want to be as strict as I can get, because God honors those who try to consecrate their lives for Him. Is a little discomfort really comparable to the glory ahead? I know I am probably rambling, but this just really bothers me. I dont get mad, when I hear some loopy person mock holiness...........it scares me for them. They think they are gonna strut in the pearly gates looking like the rest of the world. Lord have mercy.
Pharisee!

(Matthew 5:20 KJV) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Now, define the righteousness of the Pharisees....

I dont know about you, but that frightens me. They were so strict, they could not work, cook, walk to far, carry any load, had to dress a certain way, many activities were banned, they all knew their torah from cover to cover, they were the religious leadership of the day. They were a very holy group of people. We always label them as the bad guys, big mean faced, bushy bearded monsters crying out "crucify Him!!". In reality, they were the ministers of God. They worked in the Temple, studied His word, trained and taught God's people in His ways, etc. They were good, misguided, but good people. Very holy people, and God said that except OUR righteousness EXCEED theirs, we shall in no case enter into the kingdom of Heaven. Does that not move anyone? I pray for our generation. We mock the very thing that protects us. God help us!

I still lovya brother, even if you are and Ultra C.

Originally Posted by holinesspk

I dont mean this bad at all so please bear with me. lol! Honestly, I dont care if you do or not. My convictions are not for the eyes of men, but for God. I mean I appreciate your respecting that. It says a lot of you, but if my standards are for you to respect......they are in vain. Now I hope I said that right without making you mad because your respect means a lot. So.......yeah.....hope that came out right.

This is the greatest point of all....we don't hold the standards because it is some manual...supposely....but because of the convictions that God gave US. Keep standing Holinesspk....your keeping a great attitude!

Originally Posted by Berkeley

Take a trip to the Western District UPC.. no.. they have disarmed.. visit a few independent churches out west.

Yup...they're some good people out here!!