For Lack of Scripture

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Timmy

What about the people who think they know God's voice, but don't really? What about Deanna Laney, who killed her children on God's orders? I bet she thinks she knows God's voice. And who can say, really? This command is consistent with God's Word. There is precedent: Abraham was ordered to kill his son. God didn't stop Deanna, though, at the last moment.

And the NT doesn't help much. Matt 19:29 tells us we'll be rewarded if we forsake "houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children".

So, who can say? Maybe God did tell Deanna Laney to kill her children.

Thoughts, anyone?

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by Timmy

What about the people who think they know God's voice, but don't really? What about Deanna Laney, who killed her children on God's orders? I bet she thinks she knows God's voice. And who can say, really? This command is consistent with God's Word. There is precedent: Abraham was ordered to kill his son. God didn't stop Deanna, though, at the last moment.

And the NT doesn't help much. Matt 19:29 tells us we'll be rewarded if we forsake "houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children".

So, who can say? Maybe God did tell Deanna Laney to kill her children.

Yes, I have a thought. The difference is Abraham didn't and she did.

The sheep Jesus spoke of know His Voice, they don't think they know God's voice, they KNOW God's voice. And God's voice doesn't do anything contrary to His Word. Jesus said the Sheep will not follow the voice of a stranger. And will, in fact, flee from the stranger, because they don’t know him. The stranger entices them do that which they know to be contrary to the Word. They know God, and know His voice.
The other day on this thread I posted this verse: Jhn 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. In the verse you quoted above (Matt.29:29) Jesus said to forsake all to follow Him. That was His “speech”. To “de-priortize” family and possessions and allow Him to be first in our lives. THAT is the Word. That is the Message of that particular verse.

I don’t know who this person is you are referring to. But clearly, anyone who kills their children are mentally unstable (and that’s putting it mildly). Surely you know that. Surely you believe that. Surely you don’t think its even remotely possible to believe God had anything to do with that. Brother, stop listening so much to the “speech” and tune in to the Word.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Yes, I have a thought. The difference is Abraham didn't and she did.

The sheep Jesus spoke of know His Voice, they don't think they know God's voice, they KNOW God's voice. And God's voice doesn't do anything contrary to His Word. Jesus said the Sheep will not follow the voice of a stranger. And will, in fact, flee from the stranger, because they don’t know him. The stranger entices them do that which they know to be contrary to the Word. They know God, and know His voice.
The other day on this thread I posted this verse: Jhn 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. In the verse you quoted above (Matt.29:29) Jesus said to forsake all to follow Him. That was His “speech”. To “de-priortize” family and possessions and allow Him to be first in our lives. THAT is the Word. That is the Message of that particular verse.

I don’t know who this person is you are referring to. But clearly, anyone who kills their children are mentally unstable (and that’s putting it mildly). Surely you know that. Surely you believe that. Surely you don’t think its even remotely possible to believe God had anything to do with that. Brother, stop listening so much to the “speech” and tune in to the Word.

That's one of the problems with the Bible. It (apparently) often doesn't mean what it says. It's up to us to read between the lines. Oddly enough, everyone who reads it sees a different "message". And the Holy Spirit is supposed to guide us, but He guides different people to different doctrines. Very strange.

As for Abraham, no, he didn't kill his son, but he was in the process of doing so and, presumably, would have if God hadn't stopped him. Why do we admire that, but stories like Deanna Laney's turn our stomachs? Abraham is a hero, but Deanna is insane.

An excerpt from the link:

Laney knew she had to "step out in faith." She had to trust God, and she believed that God would use her brutal deed to do something great. He had done such things in the Bible.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Timmy

That's one of the problems with the Bible. It (apparently) often doesn't mean what it says. It's up to us to read between the lines. Oddly enough, everyone who reads it sees a different "message". And the Holy Spirit is supposed to guide us, but He guides different people to different doctrines. Very strange.

As for Abraham, no, he didn't kill his son, but he was in the process of doing so and, presumably, would have if God hadn't stopped him. Why do we admire that, but stories like Deanna Laney's turn our stomachs? Abraham is a hero, but Deanna is insane.

An excerpt from the link:

One more point: knowing God's voice and thinking you know God's voice are indistinguishable, in the mind of the one hearing a voice. The difference has no value whatsoever, to cases like Deanna's.

[tstew]

If any man or even an angel teach another gospel....

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

I think I understand what Bro. Jekyll is trying to say here, but I see a fundamental flaw in his reasoning. In times past, God spoke to His people through the mouths of the prophets. True, there was no Scriptual precedence at the time, so they (the prophets) spoke to the people by direct revelation. Today, however, God speaks to His Church through His Word. This isn't to say that there is no direct revelation today, but rather that "direct revelation" must always align with the Word of God. It is a dangerous road on which we travel when we recieve "truth" by revelation that isn't aligned with the Word. When this happens, "truth" becomes a hodge-podge of revelations that often lead us away from truth rather than to the truth. Jesus is THE revelation of God. I do believe in prophets today as much as I believe in pastors, but true prophets of God speak "Thus saith the Lord". They only serve to confirm what is written in the Word.

It doesn't matter who the "prophet" is. He may be gifted with a ministry of signs and wonders, and his prophecies may be fulfilled. But, if his message isn't biblical- based squarely of the Word, it cannot be of God. If that message was given by an angel, it cannot be true unless it fits jointly with the Word of God.

[B]Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Hbr 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

We had a poster here on AFF awhile back that I believe to be a true prophet of God. I have never met him, and know very little about him, but, when he posted, I "heard" the Word of the Lord thru his writings. I never saw him give out a word of prophecy, never had direct knowledge that any prophecy he ever spoke came to pass or not... but when he wrote, I believe he wrote the Word of the Lord. His "message" was aligned with the Word. Sadly, as true with the prophets of old, he wasn't very popular and few "heard" his message. Many enjoyed his postings, but few heard the message. As far as I know, he no longer posts here... and it is our loss. I'm reminded of what Jesus said: Jhn 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. We often hear the voice, we just can't hear the Word.

I agree with your post, One Accord. Very good biblical reference to how God speaks to us today!!! Vs times past!

[Jekyll]

Ferd! You have gotten it! Thank you for your input.

Again, I marvel when I think of the heros of the Bible that were able to hear God's voice and act. But how about the people that followed them, trusted them, and obeyed them?

How about those who didn't? Korah was swallowed up. Ananias and Sapphira were pegged. Noah's generation was lost. Miriam got leprosy. The Jewish rulers of the day killed the King of Glory (which, in turn, provided a way of salvation to humanity). The seven churches were perishing and didn't have an ear to hear. Israel turned themselves away from the prophets and went into captivity.

Saul didn't hear Samuel, but he was ready willing and able to listen to a lying devil. Balaam didn't hear God, but he listened to a donkey.

There are many types that come from Abraham's obedience to sacrifice Isaac. But Abraham the human being...was seconds away from killing his promise because God requested it.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Timmy

What about the people who think they know God's voice, but don't really? What about Deanna Laney, who killed her children on God's orders? I bet she thinks she knows God's voice. And who can say, really? This command is consistent with God's Word. There is precedent: Abraham was ordered to kill his son. God didn't stop Deanna, though, at the last moment.

And the NT doesn't help much. Matt 19:29 tells us we'll be rewarded if we forsake "houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children".

So, who can say? Maybe God did tell Deanna Laney to kill her children.

I have a thought, Timmy. Abraham came from a pagan culture, in which the sacrificing of children was not all that unusual. Maybe God was communicating to Abraham and his family that the true God does not call for human sacrifice. Though it was heartbreaking to Abraham to think that God wanted such a thing, it was not out of his reasoning (culture) that God might require it.
I believe God was eradicating an evil practice out of Abraham's linage.

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by Timmy

That's one of the problems with the Bible. It (apparently) often doesn't mean what it says. It's up to us to read between the lines. Oddly enough, everyone who reads it sees a different "message". And the Holy Spirit is supposed to guide us, but He guides different people to different doctrines. Very strange.

As for Abraham, no, he didn't kill his son, but he was in the process of doing so and, presumably, would have if God hadn't stopped him. Why do we admire that, but stories like Deanna Laney's turn our stomachs? Abraham is a hero, but Deanna is insane.

An excerpt from the link:

I don't think thats the problem with the Bible as much as it is with peoiple readinf what they want to into it. Kinda like this forum. When I first came here, I was taken aback by what I saw. People were downright hateful to each other. They said things that sounded awfully offensive to me.... I thought, "Gee, I might say that to a friend in joking, but I'd never say that to someone I didn't know". Then I realized, "These people ARE friends". So, I learned the "venacular" and came to understand what this forum is all about.

Same thing with the Bible. If I read it for what it says (with a preconcieved notion that God is this angry, vengeful God), then I, too, would question Him. But, I read too much where God extended mercy was none was deserved, he forgave when I would have killed, he loved the unlovable. He had compassion of the most rebellious. He called, and we refused, He sent messengers many times, but we refused. He invited, but we rejected. He loved, we hated in return. The Bible speaks of God killing the Amelekites, the Hittites and all the other "tites" in the Bible. What kind of God does that? The kind that loves His own. He was doing what He gave His son for- to rid the world of sin.

God told Abraham to kill his own son. Why didn't Abraham do it? Because the same God told Him not to. And that same God did exactly what He told Abraham to do. He gave HIS only Son, for you and me, brother. Thats the kind of God we serve.

[tstew]

I think we do have to recognize and rightly divide the eras and times. There was a clear distinction once we received the Word. We were very plainly instructed that anyone who taught anything different should be accursed, and more to the point that people are going to do so.