Can a oneness believer make it to Heaven... - Page 9

Rico · #81 06-26-2008, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

... which begs the [rhetorical] question: if there is indeed no separation or individuality of wills , how then is there a separation or individuality of personhood?

Maybe God is a set of triplets with one body?

OnTheFritz · #82 06-26-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Orthodox Trinitarians do not believe that God has three wills. Three persons, yes, but only one divine will.

Well, I wasn't necessarily meaning that they have different divine goals - maybe "wills" was the wrong word. But as I understand from the books I have read, they have individual behaviours. One "person" can function independently of the other. If that is not the case, then we are purely talking manifestations, and I know that Trinitarians don't like that terminology.

Sherri · #83 06-26-2008, 10:36 PM

I could go to any church and be saved, because I am saved by the blood of Jesus. However, if I had children to raise, I would want them in a church that baptized in Jesus' name. I would not want them to be confused about what I believe about baptism.

When I was little, we went to an AG church in Wyoming because there WAS NO UPC church anywhere close back in the 50's/60's. It didn't hurt us, but we were too little at that point to consider being baptized. If we had wanted to be, my folks would have brought us back to Illinois to be baptized, I'm sure. However, they worshiped in that church and were not any worse for it; they knew how they believed. They did not feel like the AG people were lost though, just that they had less understanding than we did.

Sister Alvear · #84 06-27-2008, 12:34 AM

true Sherri, I know what I believe but would not want to confuse my children...

U376977 · #85 06-27-2008, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Break it down, U37...

There are some here on this forum who seem to not realize (or not want to acknowledge?) that there are many churches like this.

I had one woman look at me and say she used to pray to the Father, and to Jesus, but recently she's come to realize the beauty in praying to the Holy Spirit also!!

Yet some AFF members seem to make a hobby out of of telling us how very little difference there is between what we believe and what Trinitarians believe. Whatever.

You'll never convince me of that. I've seen and heard too much with my own eyes and ears to ever believe that.

Well, if people on the AFF do not realize this then a good visit to one of these heretic churches might open thier eyes. ?? Of course, you have to be willing to see when they are open.

A particular church on Charlotte that I am thinking of has a national voice thru the Word network. They are a Jewish Messianic type congregation. Now most of those type people are more relatable to the OP position on the Godhead. But NOT this church. The Pastor/Rabbi's wife is one of the teachers and I heard her teach the trinity and it sounded straight out of the Catholic dogma. I could not attend that "Church" or expose my kids to that kind of idolatry teaching.

The key again is: Who are you worshipping, Who are you praying too? Many Trinity people pray to and worship the Father and Holy Ghost (thank-you BH for Good Morning Holy Spirit) thinking of them as distinct (a trinity term) beings other than Jesus Chirst and when they do it is IDOLATRY. Pure and simple worship of "another god."

COOPER · #86 06-27-2008, 09:16 AM

That is what I am doing now Bro!

Jermyn Davidson · #87 06-27-2008, 09:36 AM

This question seems to imply that Heaven will be a place without Trinitarian believers.

I FLATLY REJECT THIS.

I don't believe that Martin Luther and John Wesley are burning in hell right now, and have been for over a hundred years. I don't believe that Spurgeon is in hell.

Is Billy Graham Sr on his way to hell? Is Falwell in hell? How about Bishop Patterson? All of these men of GOD are Trinitarian whom God have used in a mighty way to reach their generation.

I don't agree with them, but to imply or flatly state they are in hell is beyond judgmental-- it's ludicrous!

Jermyn Davidson · #88 06-27-2008, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Orthodox Trinitarians do not believe that God has three wills. Three persons, yes, but only one divine will.

Three steppers do not believe one stepper Apostolics are lost because, supposedly, all one stepper Apostolics preach the absolute necessity of OBEYING Acts 2:38. Disobedience to Acts 2:38 is disobedience to a command of God. You are lost if you don't do the will of God and keep the commandments of the Lord.

The Holy Ghost is a promise, not a command.

ManOfWord · #89 06-27-2008, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Once again, the MoW spin machine is in full force.

1... I don't have to convince you of this, and you probably wont want to believe it anyway, but I have seen many of them state, and or clearly imply that Oneness folks are hell-bound. If you really think Trinitarians don't call us hell bound, maybe you haven't been paying attention. Maybe you've spend so much time focusing on the harsh things OPs have said about them, that you havent noticed the harsh things they've said about us.

2... I didn't say it was "equal on both sides". I was not getting into who does it more, is it equal, etc. My point was that it something that happens on both sides. So you'd probably do better to respond to what I said, than to what I didn't say.

I have been paying attention for quite some time and I have found that the VAST majority of Trinitarians don't state oneness folks are lost. Yes, there are some who do, beyond a doubt, but most of the vitriol, in my experience, is from the oneness ranks. Most of it stems from the 3 step viewpoint who don't believe that ANYONE is going to heaven except them. Once again, see the "One Stepper" thread for ad-nauseum discussion and plain admittance of this fact.

When you tell someone that they are going to hell for what they believe, how can anyone expect to them be able to receive anything further? Anyone has a right to believe it, but you're also going to have to deal with the consequences of that approach as well.

I have been able to share the oneness with trinitarians and watch them receive whole heartedly without ever having to bring salvation into the equation.

I will state this again as I so many times on the "One Stepper" thread:

"There is no way that God will cast His children to hell, whom He has filled and have been sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, and who have a relationship with Him, and who also don't have a complete understanding of the godhead."

To do so would be to lift up an understanding above a proper relationship. Sorry, I don't buy that. That is not the God whom I serve.

Kutless · #90 06-27-2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1399

This question seems to imply that Heaven will be a place without Trinitarian believers.

I FLATLY REJECT THIS.

I don't believe that Martin Luther and John Wesley are burning in hell right now, and have been for over a hundred years. I don't believe that Spurgeon is in hell.

Is Billy Graham Sr on his way to hell? Is Falwell in hell? How about Bishop Patterson? All of these men of GOD are Trinitarian whom God have used in a mighty way to reach their generation.

I don't agree with them, but to imply or flatly state they are in hell is beyond judgmental-- it's ludicrous!

This is a bunk post....not my intentions at all. Don't judge it on where the thread has gone and don't pretend you can read my mind.......bad form Peter Pan!