Question For My Oneness Friends...

[chosenbyone]

Originally Posted by AbundantGrace

You're so right TRF! Most of your comments are outrageous! I meant "friend" when I first posted it... I meant it when I posted it again... And I still mean it now.

I have come to realize, after this thread, that perhaps I do have somethings going on inside of me that I need to surrender to the Lord and allow Him to touch and heal me. I'm definitely not trying to come here and stir you guys up and then act like I'm innocent, as someone stated, but my initial question was totally sincere. However, it's been a while since I've seen the types of responses that I saw here. It started bringing some feelings up in me that I didn't really even realize were still there. Leaving the UPC was very traumatic. My wife and I were called unbelievable names when we left. The rumor mill cranked up and churches that I once preached in, began spreading so much deceitful garbage about me. It was even said that I was on drugs and hanging out in bars! All total lies, simply because we disagreed with their doctrine and QUIETLY left. But as far as considering them my friends and my brothers and sisters in Christ, I do, regardless of their opinions. The majority of my family is still very involved in UPC.

I pray that you all find deliverance from this organization, because it fulfills the criteria of being deemed a Religious Cult.

Brother,

Don't think that you were the only one who has ever been hurt by gossiping, vengeful people! Many of us have been down that road yet were able to realize that the UPC wasn't the one who hurt us, just misguided individuals.

Your comment about not wanting to come here and stir the pot seemed disingenuous given your closing comment about your prayer for deliverance of us who were still in a religious cult. Obviously, your intent was to stir the pot.

CB1

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by AbundantGrace

I will not be back on this Forum any longer. Of course, after this, I may not be ALLOWED back on this forum. That's fine.

Originally Posted by AbundantGrace

...I pray that you all find deliverance from this organization, because it fulfills the criteria of being deemed a Religious Cult.

Hello. Didn't he say he was leaving and not coming back? I was kinda hoping he'd keep his word; because he is bringing nothing but negativity to the forum.

I feel bad for the guy, but I think until he gets over his bitterness, he's going to be very unhappy being here with us "cult members".

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by AbundantGrace

Read this passage of scripture carefully and think about what you're reading.

Rev 5:1 - 7:Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, "Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?" But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. Then one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals." Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.
NIV

A couple of questions. First of all, who is the Lamb? He's Jesus... I believe we can all agree on that, right?

But notice, it says that He (the Lamb, Jesus) came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. Now who is it that's sitting on the throne that Jesus, the Lamb is taking the scroll from?

Just wondering what your answers may be...

Why can't we agree?
If all of God the Father was In Jesus the Son, who was Jesus praying to In heaven? Why can't some understand that God the Father can be In his Son and In heaven at the same time?

John 17:1: These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: (Why can't we agree that Jesus the Son didn't glorify himself?)
2: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. (Why can't we agree that the Father gave the Son power?)3: And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (Why can't we agree that the Father sent the Son?)4: I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. (Why can't we agree that the Father gave the Son a work to do?)
5: And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. (Why can't we agree that the Son was with the Father before the world?)
6: I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. (Why can't we agree that the Son manifested the Fathers name to us and we was the Fathers and the Father gave us to the Son?)
7: Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. (Why can't we understand that the Father gave the Son all things?)
8: For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. ( Why can't we understand that the Father gave the Son his Words and the Son came out from the Father?)
9: I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. (Why can't we understand that we are the Fathers and the Sons?)10: And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11: And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.(Why can't we except the fact that the Son went to the Father? In other words all of the Father was not In the Son but part of the Father was still In Heaven. Why can't we except the fact that we are one with the Father and Son as they are one but yet we are separate ? If we are one with the Father and Son and we are separate, then the Father and Son are separate.)
12: While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. (Why can't we except the fact that the Son keeps us In the Fathers name?)13: And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14: I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. (Once again the Son gave us the Fathers Word)15: I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16: They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17: Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18: As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19: And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20: Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; (Here we believe on the Son by our word.)
( Why can't we understand we are one with them the father and son as they are one )21: That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22: And the glory which; that they may be one, even as we are one: thou gavest me I have given them
23: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24: Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. 25: O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26: And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

I have one more question for the trinty and oneness people, what Is the name of the Father that the Son has declared to us? The fact is, we all need to be baptized for the remission of sins In the Fathers name that the Son declared to us. Acts.2:38

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

I had/have a rich heritage in the Church of God, which didn't allow for an easy conversion from Trinitarian to Oneness. After a couple of brothers, who had demonstrated much patience after a couple of months of bible studies, showed me Acts 20:28 again, a revelation of the truth struck me.

28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. Acts 20:28 KJV

Awesome!!! This is the same testimony my husband has as he, also, came out of the COG! When he joined the Air Force the two guys he bunked with were OP's. Thanks for sharing!!!!

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by AbundantGrace

These are many of the answers that I expected to receive. I'm not here to argue. I just wanted to see what you'd say. I was raised in oneness all my life and preached it for a number of years. It still amazes me though when I look back and realize that I used to be one. It also amazes me how the scriptures are manipulated to justify your doctrine.

Thanks for all of your input. It will be helpful in what I'm doing.

Yes it amazes me too. All we must believe is the scripture.These two or three are one God.God is in Jesus the same time he's in heaven.God is in us,God is many places,he is still one.God is in Jesus and at the same time on his throne.

1 John 5:7: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Throne means rule. In heaven or abode of God are many thrones or rules. Jesus sitting with God in his throne shows joint rule. Us sitting with God and Jesus shows us in joint rule with them. Them being, God the Spirit and Jesus the Son or flesh.

In heaven or the city or the throne are many seats or thrones.

REV.3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


Math.19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


Acts2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne .


Heb.12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Math.5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne.

[Rico]

I don't get it. This guy joins the forum, appears to fit right in, and all of a sudden comes out with this. Doesn't make sense to me. Oh well.

[U376977]

Originally Posted by AbundantGrace

I pray that you all find deliverance from this organization, because it fulfills the criteria of being deemed a Religious Cult.

WHOO, I can't let that go. Whose criteria will define the UPC as "cult." The Catholic church? Because they are not "orthodox" in doctrine. Well, who has the right to determine orthodox? The "church fathers" who wrote and participated in the church counsels? Baloney. If that is the criteria then almost all protestants would qualify as a cult.

I am not a fan of any denomination. Jesus did not start one. He said he would build, "His church." I do not think that means appointing a bishop etc. But I would never call the a "cult."

[Jermyn Davidson]

"Unto us a child is born. Unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulders. And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
Isaiah 9:6

JESUS is my everything. All I ever need, I can call HIS NAME and HE comes through for me. Honestly, I don't agree with everything involved with the "Oneness Doctrine", but I do know that when I call on JESUS, GOD ALMIGHTY moves things, changes things, does things just for me.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Bro. AbundantGrace,

Having the Word to measure with, can sustain us in times such as you
have mentioned.

Jesus said, "Blessed are you, (when ?), when men shall revile (to defame, that is,
rail at, chide, taunt: - cast in teeth, (suffer) reproach, revile, upbraid.) you,
and persecute you, and say all evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice,
and be exceeding glad; for great is your reward in heaven;for so persecuted
they the prophets which were before you".
Matt.5;11,12

Brother, quite possibly you were going through a "Job" trial, a testing. I can
assure you, satan would desire to have you.

If we are ever used of God, we will be tested for quality control. QT is
to see what happens to us under pressure. Will we crack, give up, etc.,
Will our vessel stand the test of being used in His service!

I have gone through fiery trials, BUT the WORD says:

I Peter 4:12-16 NKJV

12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you;

13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy.

14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified.

15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people’s matters.

16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.


May you be encouraged in the Lord and in the Power of HIS might, in
Jesus Name!

Always measure what is happening by the Word of God! There is safety
and protection in God's Instruction Book! We just have to know what the
instructions are. All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable
for doctrine (teaching), for reproof, for correction, for instruction in right-
eousness, (Why?) that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished
unto all good works.

Blessings,

Falla39

Bro. AG,

I had not read all your posts when I posted the above but felt to give
you the benefit of the doubt.

Many years ago I worked for a period of time for a company that made
circuit boards. We sordered small components (diodes, capacitors, etc.)
on the boards. When they were completely assembled, they would go into
trays that would be put on shelves and go into hot electric ovens.

When removed after a set time, they were checked to see if they had
come apart or the boards cracked during this procedure. Sometimes the
components would have to be repaired by resordering and put back into
the oven. This had to be repeated as long as the components or boards
did not stay together. The boards that were not "fit" for use eventually
were thrown into a waste container where they would have the usable
parts removed and the rest discarded.

The children of Israel were taken around and around in the wilderness
because they were stiff-necked, grumbled and complained. They were
unthankful, unholy. God refined them through the furnace of affliction.

We are children of the New Covenant and if we are to be sanctuaries
in the service of God, we must also be refined by fiery trials which are
to test us. God spends much time, patience and longsuffering, working
with us. He isn't willing for any to perish but for all to come to repent-
ance. My desire, to be used of God. By endeavoring to live in an attitude
of repentance. Don't want anything to slip into my life. A root of bitter-
ness, or anything else. I need JESUS to keep me every day. I want to
be kept by His grace and mercy. Brother, I say this humbly.

Moses, in rehearsing the wilderness journey, told the children of Israel
the reason God had taken them through the howling wilderness.
Deut., the 8th chapter tells about the 40 yr. wilderness journey. Notice
verse 2 and 3 especially.

To humble thee.
To prove thee.
To see what was in their hearts. (came out their mouths, grumbling and
complaining.
And to see if they would obey all His commandments or no.

Dear Brother, this is not to criticize but to encourage you. We ALL need
to humble ourselves under the Mighty Hand of God that He might lift us
up.

An old song my late father loved to sing. It's one of my favorites also.
It is not a negative song at all. The words are wonderful words of in-
struction.

Humble Thyself (When I am alone I sing "Humble Myself". If a group it
might be appropiate to sing,. "Humble Ourselves"....!

Humble Thyself To Walk

If thou wouldst have the dear Savior from heaven
Walk by thy side from the morn till the even,
There is a rule that each day you must follow:
Humble thyself to walk with God.

Refrain:
Humble thyself and the Lord will draw near thee,
Humble thyself and His presence shall cheer thee;
He will not walk with the proud or the scornful,
Humble thyself to walk with God.

Just as the Lord, in the world’s early ages,
Walked and communed with the prophets and sages,
He will come now if you meet the conditions:
Humble thyself to walk with God.

Just as the stream finds a bed that is lowly,
So Jesus walks with the pure and the holy;
Cast out thy pride, and in heartfelt contrition
Humble thyself to walk with God.

Blessings,

Falla39

[SavedLou]

[QUOTE=chosenbyone;500149]I had/have a rich heritage in the Church of God, which didn't allow for an easy conversion from Trinitarian to Oneness. After a couple of brothers, who had demonstrated much patience after a couple of months of bible studies, showed me Acts 20:28 again, a revelation of the truth struck me.

28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. Acts 20:28 KJV[/QUOTE]

that was another eye opening one for me. also..."And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." I Timothy 3:16. I love this one! AWESOME!