WPF in talks with Philippines UPC

Originally Posted by Minister_WD

Reports indicate that Bro. Steve Buxton, Bro. Johnny King, and Bro. Charles Harris are headed to the Philippines.

On Wednesday of this week, they are scheduled to meet with 50 Oneness Pastors in the Philippines that represent 30,000+ members (UPC?). These pastors are interested in the WPF and have expressed interest in being linked with it. According to Bro. Buxton, this would be "huge" for the WPF.

There are scores of U.S. pastors who have works in the Philipines. SB has been going there for years and was aligned with the UPC. He will probably continue what he has already started years ago. One U.S. pastor joined the UPCI after years of working in the Philipines. They told him to continue his independent work. He has and there have been no problems. I asked him if there was any conflict. His work of about a thousand in Manila never even hears about the UPC. There are simply too many millions.

[NW Pastor]

Originally Posted by R.D. Foster

There are scores of U.S. pastors who have works in the Philipines. SB has been going there for years and was aligned with the UPC. He will probably continue what he has already started years ago. One U.S. pastor joined the UPCI after years of working in the Philipines. They told him to continue his independent work. He has and there have been no problems. I asked him if there was any conflict. His work of about a thousand in Manila never even hears about the UPC. There are simply too many millions.

SB started nothing. He built upon the foundation that was already laid in Bohol. Nothing wrong with that, but his work was all done under the auspices of the UPCI.

Originally Posted by NW Pastor

SB started nothing. He built upon the foundation that was already laid in Bohol. Nothing wrong with that, but his work was all done under the auspices of the UPCI.

My understanding is that he was independently working with these men while in the UPC. No one told me this. It was just what I thought.

If he was working with them from his own resources, I don't see a problem with him continuing.

Originally Posted by R.D. Foster

There are scores of U.S. pastors who have works in the Philipines. SB has been going there for years and was aligned with the UPC. He will probably continue what he has already started years ago. One U.S. pastor joined the UPCI after years of working in the Philipines. They told him to continue his independent work. He has and there have been no problems. I asked him if there was any conflict. His work of about a thousand in Manila never even hears about the UPC. There are simply too many millions.

Although the Philippines has about 85 million population, it's land area is too little for everybody not to here about everybody. We have 8 National television stations and some more national radio stations. We also have a lot of newspapers and tabloids that's nationally syndicated.

All Trinitarian denominations do feel UPCI's presence in my country. Add to that the different groups of cults who do seek us and openly challenges our National Leaders for debates on national TV.

And because of behavorial and relational problems of a lot of the independent churches in here, it's really hard for the WPF to gather at least 30,000 people under their own banner. PAW has done this before and is not successful.

Add to that the very fact that a majority of these Independent groups in here are more liberal than you might think. A lot of them do wear pants (women), use make ups, don't believe in tongues as initial evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost, etc. Their liberalism would make you think that the UPC Philippines is the ultra-conservative group in here...

Plus the fact that a lot of them do have TVs in their home, you will have a general idea as to what the Tulsa Group has to give up before convincing these guys to join them.

Originally Posted by NW Pastor

SB started nothing. He built upon the foundation that was already laid in Bohol. Nothing wrong with that, but his work was all done under the auspices of the UPCI.

This is completely true.

Originally Posted by blueaugust

Although the Philippines has about 85 million population, it's land area is too little for everybody not to here about everybody. We have 8 National television stations and some more national radio stations. We also have a lot of newspapers and tabloids that's nationally syndicated.

All Trinitarian denominations do feel UPCI's presence in my country. Add to that the different groups of cults who do seek us and openly challenges our National Leaders for debates on national TV.

And because of behavorial and relational problems of a lot of the independent churches in here, it's really hard for the WPF to gather at least 30,000 people under their own banner. PAW has done this before and is not successful.

Add to that the very fact that a majority of these Independent groups in here are more liberal than you might think. A lot of them do wear pants (women), use make ups, don't believe in tongues as initial evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost, etc. Their liberalism would make you think that the UPC Philippines is the ultra-conservative group in here...

Plus the fact that a lot of them do have TVs in their home, you will have a general idea as to what the Tulsa Group has to give up before convincing these guys to join them.

Very good points. Our most evangelized state in America is Louisiana. It probably has as many independent works as UPC works and all claim to be having revival. If you ever hear of a WPF work I can only hope that they will be ethical as I am sure you will be toward them.

[NW Pastor]

Originally Posted by blueaugust

Although the Philippines has about 85 million population, it's land area is too little for everybody not to here about everybody. We have 8 National television stations and some more national radio stations. We also have a lot of newspapers and tabloids that's nationally syndicated.

All Trinitarian denominations do feel UPCI's presence in my country. Add to that the different groups of cults who do seek us and openly challenges our National Leaders for debates on national TV.

And because of behavorial and relational problems of a lot of the independent churches in here, it's really hard for the WPF to gather at least 30,000 people under their own banner. PAW has done this before and is not successful.

Add to that the very fact that a majority of these Independent groups in here are more liberal than you might think. A lot of them do wear pants (women), use make ups, don't believe in tongues as initial evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost, etc. Their liberalism would make you think that the UPC Philippines is the ultra-conservative group in here...

Plus the fact that a lot of them do have TVs in their home, you will have a general idea as to what the Tulsa Group has to give up before convincing these guys to join them.

This is completely true. The independents apostolics in the UPC Philippines are generally not the kind who would fit well with the Tulsa group. They would have major problems with many of the Articles of Faith. It will be interesting to see who they court and what they are willing to accept to have a "worldwide" missions program.

As far as SB is concerned, he should continue to work with any independents he as scared up, but should leave the UPC churches and pastors strictly alone. He was in that country as an invited guest of a national church. Wouldn't there be ethical problems if he then invited UPC churches or pastors to leave that organization for his own? I don't think he would do this.

There are millions of unsaved Filipinoes who need the gospel. The WPF can evangelize them, as the UPC is effectively doing.

Originally Posted by NW Pastor

This is completely true. The independents apostolics in the UPC Philippines are generally not the kind who would fit well with the Tulsa group. They would have major problems with many of the Articles of Faith. It will be interesting to see who they court and what they are willing to accept to have a "worldwide" missions program.

As far as SB is concerned, he should continue to work with any independents he as scared up, but should leave the UPC churches and pastors strictly alone. He was in that country as an invited guest of a national church. Wouldn't there be ethical problems if he then invited UPC churches or pastors to leave that organization for his own. I don't think he would do this.

There are millions of unsaved Filipinoes who need the gospel. The WPF can evangelize them, as the UPC is effectively doing.

Amen!!!

Originally Posted by R.D. Foster

My understanding is that he was independently working with these men while in the UPC. No one told me this. It was just what I thought.

If he was working with them from his own resources, I don't see a problem with him continuing.

Yes there could be a problem as sooner or later, the people from Bohol will discern that what he represents now is something that is different from before. They still do have District Presbyters and Sectional Presbyters in there. And you'll be amazed as to how strong the clan ties and family ties are in here...

Originally Posted by blueaugust

Yes there could be a problem as sooner or later, the people from Bohol will discern that what he represents now is something that is different from before. They still do have District Presbyters and Sectional Presbyters in there. And you'll be amazed as to how strong the clan ties and family ties are in here...

What has SB's involvement been to this point?