The Difference Between the PCI of the Merger and the Current Counterfeits

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Well if you say so ... the Word says differently.

Show me in James where it says differently.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

There is no context in James that states that Abrahams faith was justified. It states plainly that Abraham was not justified until he had put action to his faith and did something. The verse never implies that faith is justified, because faith is not unjust to begin with.

In case you missed it ... the Word never contradicts itself

While Abraham was justified (made right with God) by faith alone, without works (Gen. 15:6, Rom. 4)

Read this again and tell me what you think ....

WHAT ABRAHAM’S FAITH MEANS

The story of Abraham concerning the promised offspring is a perfect, God-inspired illustration of the working of justification by faith. God gave Abraham a word of promise that he would be the father of many nations. He was to be the father of the Messiah. Through him would come the offspring (singular) which would bless the whole world. But, Abraham was childless. Sarah was barren. They could do nothing to make the promise come to pass. They did try to do many things to help God, but He rejected them all. The child they had was a miracle - a supernatural work of conception by God. Sarah gave birth by faith alone: "Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable." (Heb. 11:11-12 KJV)

All they could do was receive the miracle. The promise was given to Abraham before he was faithful. He was not faithful in order to earn the promise, but because of the assurance of the promise. This is true of justification by faith. We bring nothing to the table of salvation but open empty hands. God promises, fulfills the promise supernaturally, and we in awe, wonder, and trust receive the gift of new birth.

This story tells us something else. The faith that Abraham placed in God’s declaration of justification was not mental assent. It was a faith which endured throughout and up to the end of his life. Justifying faith is anything but "easy believism." It is a rugged faith created in the heart by the entrance of the Word of promise. Nothing will separate one who believes from the love of God. "Being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ." (Phil. 1:6)

If we understand James correctly, we see that Abraham’s sacrifice of Isaac was evidence that God was right in Genesis fifteen. God’s justifying work was effective in Abraham’s life the rest of his life. The test of time and of God proved that the work of justification is valid. This is in fact why God tested Abraham. It was not to see if he was worthy of salvation. But, it was to show the world that his salvation was sure. Based on this sure salvation, God gave the world an object lesson of the Gospel: the offering of one’s only son.

While Abraham was justified (made right with God) by faith alone, without works (Gen. 15:6, Rom. 4), Abraham's faith (not his person) was justified by what he did. [No person justified by faith is free to live a life of ungodliness. All who are justified by faith are called to a life of obedience to Christ and true holiness, which is the character of Jesus Christ.] Paul says in Romans, ABRAHAM was justified. In James, Abraham’s FAITH was justified. For Paul in Romans, the SINNER is forgiven. In James, the believer is approved as a believer evidenced by a changed life. When we are justified, we are saved through trust alone in Christ alone. As a result, that faith will be demonstrated through the living presence of Jesus in our everyday life. If it is not, we must examine our faith to see if it is in Christ alone or in Christ plus something else. THIS IS THE TRUE AND FINAL TEST.

Abraham showed by his works that his faith was in God alone. This is why Abraham was saved. He was saved by faith in God alone. His faith was "justified" or proved by his works. He was not justified FOR his works. His justification or salvation was APART from and PRIOR to his works. But the works will always follow because the heart that is redeemed will desire to glorify God in true discipleship and submission to the will of God.

James was not teaching that a person must keep the Law or perform certain religious functions to be saved. That is far from the message of the book of James. It is also interesting that the people who want to quote James against the "believe only" people don’t seem to have a proper understanding about what James is teaching. In fact they may come under James’ correction for unwittingly doing what James is denouncing.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Show me in James where it says differently.

Let's harmonize the Word rather than isolate it.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

In case you missed it ... the Word never contradicts itself

While Abraham was justified (made right with God) by faith alone, without works (Gen. 15:6, Rom. 4)

Read this again and tell me what you think ....

WHAT ABRAHAM’S FAITH MEANS

The story of Abraham concerning the promised offspring is a perfect, God-inspired illustration of the working of justification by faith. God gave Abraham a word of promise that he would be the father of many nations. He was to be the father of the Messiah. Through him would come the offspring (singular) which would bless the whole world. But, Abraham was childless. Sarah was barren. They could do nothing to make the promise come to pass. They did try to do many things to help God, but He rejected them all. The child they had was a miracle - a supernatural work of conception by God. Sarah gave birth by faith alone: "Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable." (Heb. 11:11-12 KJV)

All they could do was receive the miracle. The promise was given to Abraham before he was faithful. He was not faithful in order to earn the promise, but because of the assurance of the promise. This is true of justification by faith. We bring nothing to the table of salvation but open empty hands. God promises, fulfills the promise supernaturally, and we in awe, wonder, and trust receive the gift of new birth.

This story tells us something else. The faith that Abraham placed in God’s declaration of justification was not mental assent. It was a faith which endured throughout and up to the end of his life. Justifying faith is anything but "easy believism." It is a rugged faith created in the heart by the entrance of the Word of promise. Nothing will separate one who believes from the love of God. "Being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ." (Phil. 1:6)

If we understand James correctly, we see that Abraham’s sacrifice of Isaac was evidence that God was right in Genesis fifteen. God’s justifying work was effective in Abraham’s life the rest of his life. The test of time and of God proved that the work of justification is valid. This is in fact why God tested Abraham. It was not to see if he was worthy of salvation. But, it was to show the world that his salvation was sure. Based on this sure salvation, God gave the world an object lesson of the Gospel: the offering of one’s only son.

While Abraham was justified (made right with God) by faith alone, without works (Gen. 15:6, Rom. 4), Abraham's faith (not his person) was justified by what he did. [No person justified by faith is free to live a life of ungodliness. All who are justified by faith are called to a life of obedience to Christ and true holiness, which is the character of Jesus Christ.] Paul says in Romans, ABRAHAM was justified. In James, Abraham’s FAITH was justified. For Paul in Romans, the SINNER is forgiven. In James, the believer is approved as a believer evidenced by a changed life. When we are justified, we are saved through trust alone in Christ alone. As a result, that faith will be demonstrated through the living presence of Jesus in our everyday life. If it is not, we must examine our faith to see if it is in Christ alone or in Christ plus something else. THIS IS THE TRUE AND FINAL TEST.

Abraham showed by his works that his faith was in God alone. This is why Abraham was saved. He was saved by faith in God alone. His faith was "justified" or proved by his works. He was not justified FOR his works. His justification or salvation was APART from and PRIOR to his works. But the works will always follow because the heart that is redeemed will desire to glorify God in true discipleship and submission to the will of God.

James was not teaching that a person must keep the Law or perform certain religious functions to be saved. That is far from the message of the book of James. It is also interesting that the people who want to quote James against the "believe only" people don’t seem to have a proper understanding about what James is teaching. In fact they may come under James’ correction for unwittingly doing what James is denouncing.

I think the above is an attempt to validate a "believe only" doctrine, and that it does not go along with scripture.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I think the above is an attempt to validate a "believe only" doctrine, and that it does not go along with scripture.

That's all /??... does it blend ???... or does he isolate scripture???

[Sherri]

Well, Coon would be proud of Eddie today! He preached on Faith and Works; that you cannot be saved by faith alone; you have to live a pure life before God. He went in to detail about sins that the Bible lists. It was heavy, but good.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Let's harmonize the Word rather than isolate it.

OK Harmonize the text I have given with the rest of scripture.

Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

So was James wrong in saying that Abraham was justified When he offered up Isaac? Note that it does not say that Abrahams faith was justified. You would have to add something in there that is not there.


Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Don't you see that when Abraham put actions to his faith, that his works made his faith complete?


Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Again, when Abraham believed God, he had corresponding actions to that faith, and when faith was perfected (completed) he received the imputation for righteousness


Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Do you see?? There is no way around these verses unless you misrepresent them, as BG does. A Man is justified by works of faith, and not merely faith alone.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I think the above is an attempt to validate a "believe only" doctrine, and that it does not go along with scripture.

No I think he's pointing out that Ultracons when unable to rightly divide the Word ... will throw out labels like "believe only" doctrine ....

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Well, Coon would be proud of Eddie today! He preached on Faith and Works; that you cannot be saved by faith alone; you have to live a pure life before God. He went in to detail about sins that the Bible lists. It was heavy, but good.

Sounds like a good balanced, biblical sermon.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Sounds like a good balanced, biblical sermon.

I agree ....