The Difference Between the PCI of the Merger and the Current Counterfeits

[SDG]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

What does it mean "to fulfill all righteousness"?

Well Matt .. Jesus fulfilled all righteousness - that is, to perform completely whatever is right .... didnt he? ...

The key question is "Did he it do it to become righteous??" ... of course not .... He is God ...

We are justified by faith ... declared righteous the moment we place our faith on Jesus Christ alone ... Matt ....

In Romans it says, "because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight . . . " (Rom. 3:20), and "for we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law," (Rom. 3:28), and "For what does the Scripture say? ‘And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness'" (Rom. 4:3), and "Therefore, having been justified by faith . . . " (Rom. 5:1), and "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness" (Rom. 4:5).

Baptism is an important, wonderful, and necessary step of obedience and identification .....

I know ... this is when you follow up ... with but faith without works is dead ... you're absolutely right .... but my faith doesn't validate my works ... my works validate my faith ... it's through faith that I obey and receive the benefits of Acts 2:38 and the rest of God's promises throughout the Scriptures

Thus sayeth an Apostolic Pentecostal Baptist Presbyterian child of God.

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Still argueing?

Didn't we settle that PCI and PAJC both believe in importance of having faith and being obedient?

Scram!

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Well Matt .. Jesus fulfilled all righteousness - that is, to perform completely whatever is right .... didnt he? ...

The key question is "Did he it do it to become righteous??" ... of course not .... He is God ...

We are justified by faith ... declared righteous when the moment we place our faith on Jesus Christ alone ... Matt ....

In Romans it says, "because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight . . . " (Rom. 3:20), and "for we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law," (Rom. 3:28), and "For what does the Scripture say? ‘And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness'" (Rom. 4:3), and "Therefore, having been justified by faith . . . " (Rom. 5:1), and "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness" (Rom. 4:5).

Baptism is an important, wonderful, and necessary step of obedience and identification .....

I know ... this is when you follow up ... with but faith without works is dead ... you're absolutely right .... but my faith doesn't validate my works ... my works validate my faith ... it's through faith that I obey and receive the benefits of Acts 2:38 and the rest of God's promises throughout the Scriptures

Thus sayeth an Apostolic Pentecostal Baptist Presbyterian child of God.

Jam 2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jam 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?
Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


The fact is that James states that Abraham was not justified until his "Works". It was the works along with his faith that made his faith perfect, and caused his imputation of being righteous.

Faith with works brings the imputation of righteousness. Faith without works brings nothing.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Jam 2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jam 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?
Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


The fact is that James states that Abraham was not justified until his "Works". It was the works along with his faith that made his faith perfect, and caused his imputation of being righteous.

Faith with works brings the imputation of righteousness. Faith without works brings nothing.

Please read the verse again Matt ... its SAYS HIS FAITH WAS JUSTIFIED .... not that he was justified ...

Here is a sound biblical explanation of James 2, by Bernie Gillespie:

WHAT ABRAHAM’S FAITH MEANS

The story of Abraham concerning the promised offspring is a perfect, God-inspired illustration of the working of justification by faith. God gave Abraham a word of promise that he would be the father of many nations. He was to be the father of the Messiah. Through him would come the offspring (singular) which would bless the whole world. But, Abraham was childless. Sarah was barren. They could do nothing to make the promise come to pass. They did try to do many things to help God, but He rejected them all. The child they had was a miracle - a supernatural work of conception by God. Sarah gave birth by faith alone: "Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable." (Heb. 11:11-12 KJV)

All they could do was receive the miracle. The promise was given to Abraham before he was faithful. He was not faithful in order to earn the promise, but because of the assurance of the promise. This is true of justification by faith. We bring nothing to the table of salvation but open empty hands. God promises, fulfills the promise supernaturally, and we in awe, wonder, and trust receive the gift of new birth.

This story tells us something else. The faith that Abraham placed in God’s declaration of justification was not mental assent. It was a faith which endured throughout and up to the end of his life. Justifying faith is anything but "easy believism." It is a rugged faith created in the heart by the entrance of the Word of promise. Nothing will separate one who believes from the love of God. "Being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ." (Phil. 1:6)

If we understand James correctly, we see that Abraham’s sacrifice of Isaac was evidence that God was right in Genesis fifteen. God’s justifying work was effective in Abraham’s life the rest of his life. The test of time and of God proved that the work of justification is valid. This is in fact why God tested Abraham. It was not to see if he was worthy of salvation. But, it was to show the world that his salvation was sure. Based on this sure salvation, God gave the world an object lesson of the Gospel: the offering of one’s only son.

While Abraham was justified (made right with God) by faith alone, without works (Gen. 15:6, Rom. 4), Abraham's faith (not his person) was justified by what he did. [No person justified by faith is free to live a life of ungodliness. All who are justified by faith are called to a life of obedience to Christ and true holiness, which is the character of Jesus Christ.] Paul says in Romans, ABRAHAM was justified. In James, Abraham’s FAITH was justified. For Paul in Romans, the SINNER is forgiven. In James, the believer is approved as a believer evidenced by a changed life. When we are justified, we are saved through trust alone in Christ alone. As a result, that faith will be demonstrated through the living presence of Jesus in our everyday life. If it is not, we must examine our faith to see if it is in Christ alone or in Christ plus something else. THIS IS THE TRUE AND FINAL TEST.

Abraham showed by his works that his faith was in God alone. This is why Abraham was saved. He was saved by faith in God alone. His faith was "justified" or proved by his works. He was not justified FOR his works. His justification or salvation was APART from and PRIOR to his works. But the works will always follow because the heart that is redeemed will desire to glorify God in true discipleship and submission to the will of God.

James was not teaching that a person must keep the Law or perform certain religious functions to be saved. That is far from the message of the book of James. It is also interesting that the people who want to quote James against the "believe only" people don’t seem to have a proper understanding about what James is teaching. In fact they may come under James’ correction for unwittingly doing what James is denouncing.

INAUTHENTIC FAITH

James'’ letter (as is true in most epistles) reveals certain problems among his readers. We can discern these problems by noting the admonitions given to them by James. The controversy of James was that some Jewish Christians were claiming to have the "faith of Christ," while their lives failed to reflect the presence of Christ. How was this known? Was it by super-spiritual discernment? No. It was by the absence of Christ’s character in their lives. This is an observation that even the world can make (John 13:35). They were very religious and had their doctrine fairly straight. However, their faith was lacking because it did not reflect the One in whom they supposedly believed.

James’ admonitions indicate they failed in many areas of character and conduct. They did not have compassion on the widows and orphans (1:27), they were showing favoritism and were prejudiced (2:1), they were intolerant (2:4), they failed to fulfill the "royal law" (2:13) [not the Mosaic Law] which was to "love your neighbor as yourself" [which was the ethic or law of Jesus], they came up short in providing for the needy (2:16), some were cursing others with their tongues and violating others with their mouths (3:10), out of the heart they displayed bitter envy and selfish ambitions (3:14), they were boastful and "false to the truth" (3:14), they engaged in conflicts and disputes (4:1), they were proud and arrogant (4:7-10)(4:16), they spoke evil against their brothers (4:11), they were judgmental (4:12), they did not do what was right although they knew it to be right (4:17), they grumbled against other brothers and sisters (5:9). James says this type of living is not inspired of God, but is unspiritual and devilish. It is inspired by the flesh (Jas. 3:15).

The works that they failed to keep were not the works of the law. James was correcting their failure to keep the ROYAL LAW of Christ. This was even after claiming justifying faith in Christ. He was saying that their behavior did not reflect that of one who had true faith in Jesus. They should have been compassionate, impartial, tolerant, blessing with their words, sweet and contented, selfless, peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, full of righteousness, humble, patient, confessing sins, and leading sinners back to God. [Notice that James does not list any formulas, duties, ordinances, or codes of outward appearance in this list. I point this out because James is used by some to prove that these are the "works" to which James is referring. And then the huge assumption is made that they are necessary for justification (or salvation).]

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Faith with works brings the imputation of righteousness. Faith without works brings nothing.

But first there must be a work of regeneration that takes place through faith that brings the unbeliever to the point of becoming a believer.

As a born again believer he will begin to do the works because of and through the faith and the work of regeneration that has taken place in his heart as a result of the Spirit of God.

Faith comes first through the Spirit and the Word --- then comes the works.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Please read the verse again Matt ... its SAYS HIS FAITH WAS JUSTIFIED .not that he was not justified ...

You read the text again, my friend. It does not say his faith was justified. It says HE was justified. It states plainly that not only is faith necessary for justification, but works that correspond to that faith. And if works accompany faith, they perfect, or complete the faith.



Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


As long as faith is a noun, it is dead. It is when faith becomes a verb that it produces life, and causes the worker to be justified, and have righteousness imputed.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

You read the text again, my friend. It does not say his faith was justified. It says HE was justified. It states plainly that not only is faith necessary for justification, but works that correspond to that faith. And if works accompany faith, they perfect, or complete the faith.



Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


As long as faith is a noun, it is dead. It is when faith becomes a verb that it produces life, and causes the worker to be justified, and have righteousness imputed.

In context Matt ... in context ...

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Felicity

But first there must be a work of regeneration that takes place through faith that brings the unbeliever to the point of becoming a believer.

As a born again believer he will begin to do the works because of and through the faith and the work of regeneration that has taken place in his heart as a result of the Spirit of God.

Faith comes first through the Spirit and the Word --- then comes the works.

You have this backwards. How can a man that has not been justified be regenerated prior to his justification? I have already shown that James plainly taught that a man is not justified by faith alone, but that it is after his faith has produced a corresponding action that he is justified and has righteousness imputed upon him.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

You have this backwards. How can a man that has not been justified be regenerated prior to his justification. I have already shown that James plainly taught that a man is not justified by faith alone, but it is after his faith has produced a corresponding action that he is justified.

Well if you say so ... the Word says differently.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

In context Matt ... in context ...

There is no context in James that states that Abrahams faith was justified. It states plainly that Abraham was not justified until he had put action to his faith and did something. The verse never implies that faith is justified, because faith is not unjust to begin with.