Thad,
If you don't teach your children to really know God and to hear His voice, I assure you in two to three generations your linage will not know God. You can cram all the hard rules you like on them, they will leave your teaching generation by generation. I haven't attended a UPC church in 25 years, and not one of my children have pierced their "bodies", dress in Goth or cross dressed. One son plays piano and leads music in his church, my daughter is about to go to Uruguay on a medical mission with a Christian university, and my youngest son is a sophomore at a Christian university.
You better teach them in your home, and you better live what you teach, children can smell hypocrisy a mile away. Why do you think Christians outside of your culture don't have rules for their kids?
Gone Charismatic? I'm in Dallas and I don't know of any Charismatic churches around here? What are you talking about?
Wonderful testimony! I think it's great when parents can say this about their adult children.
I hope I can say it about mine in about ten years.
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you're kids may not but scripurally you are defenseless against what i described. why? because you and others refute all the teachings and scriptural backing that we use. I never said that you have to be upc or that your kids will end up looking as i mentioned BUT what can you say against it IF IF IF they did ? you believe there are no scriptural grounds against dress.
That's where principles come in, Thad. Biblical ones. Like to abstain from the appearance of evil, for one. Being modest is another. Moderation in all things is yet another.
Thad, you won't find do's and don't's for your children when that blessed day comes. Teaching principles is the best way to teach them, and you will have Bible for EVERYTHING that way too.
Just like you don't have scripture for smoking, the principle is there in scripture.
You tell your daughter that the Bible says women can't wear pants and she can't find it, you won't be able to tell her much of anything else, cause if it isn't word for word, she won't believe it.
However, if you want to teach her not to wear pants, you can talk to her about your beliefs that you believe God prefers women to wear dresses and skirts. This is the best way to teach your children. You don't even have to have Bible for it.
For instance, my son doesn't wear jeans to church. It's the standard I have set for him. He abides by it even though I have to scripture to show him, however, I do have scripture that says he is to obey his parents, and since I'm his parent, it applies. He doesn't argue and never has about that issue, and likes to dress up for church.
My daughter, although she wears pants to school, doesn't wear them to church. I explained to her why we do that and she's never argued about it. I don't even have to remind her of what to wear, she just knows. There are lots of other girls who wear pants and jeans to church, but she doesn't use them as an excuse and give me trouble over it. It's a standard I have set for her and I.
Some things don't have to be scriptural, Thad, unless you make it a heaven or hell issue. That can set you up for problems if you don't have scripture word for word about what you believe.
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you're kids may not but scripurally you are defenseless against what i described. why? because you and others refute all the teachings and scriptural backing that we use. I never said that you have to be upc or that your kids will end up looking as i mentioned BUT what can you say against it IF IF IF they did ? you believe there are no scriptural grounds against dress.
THAD` This is were you greatly air in your thinking. You say we don't have guidelines as to what we wear, well I hate to burst your bubble BUT WE DO! The difference is we have not made up false guidelines as such as a pants one.
Thad, you haven't even posted on this thread 50 times. And repeating the same verse 50 times doesn't mean you've posted several scriptures.
HO
this thread is getting close to 900 post and you don't think i contributed 50 post here by now?? I tend to think i have but who knows.
anyhow, besides Duet 22 (which I believe is MORAL and Not ceremonial as you believe), the sripture in 1 Cor that states that the effeminate will not inherit the kingdom. the word "effeminate" in the greek means "transvestism or cross dressing". also 1 Tim 2 the word "apparrel " is a robe like garment. surely the bible would not advocate the men to wear this same garment that scripture admonish women to wear. The men's garment was different in Their way for Their time. none of wears Robes today. we would look like nut cases and you know it
THAD` This is were you greatly air in your thinking. You say we don't have guidelines as to what we wear, well I hate to burst your bubble BUT WE DO! The difference is we have not made up false guidelines as such as a pants one.
Then this hyprocrital!! you say we are legalistic to have rules yet it's OKAY for YOU to have them???? Ummmmmmmmmm well I hate to pop your bubble but your a legalist and you didn't know it.
HO
this thread is getting close to 900 post and you don't think i contributed 50 post here by now?? I tend to think i have but who knows.
anyhow, besides Duet 22 (which I believe is MORAL and Not ceremonial as you believe), the sripture in 1 Cor that states that the effeminate will not inherit the kingdom. the word "effeminate" in the greek means "transvestism or cross dressing". also 1 Tim 2 the word "apparrel " is a robe like garment. surely the bible would not advocate the men to wear this same garment that scripture admonish women to wear. The men's garment was different in Their way for Their time. none of wears Robes today. we would look like nut cases and you know it
1. Remember what I said about having honest discussion? You aren't being honest.
2. I never said that Deut 22:5 was ceremonial law. I believe that verse exactly as it's written and never said otherwise.
3. I believe what you said about effeminitism. Never said anything different.
4. Thad, does it make sense for Paul to command women to wear a garment a. that they already wore and b. to wear it throughout all cultures and times? Consider that men wore that same garment, including Paul, when that verse was written. Also, that verse doesn't command women to wear that specific garment, but that she should wear modest apparel and shouldn't wear costly apparel. That's not a command to wear a specific item. You say scripture admonishes women to wear it. Have you ever read that verse?? Obviously not. Just something else someone told you and you believe it without studying it for yourself.
5. Show me scripture that says men's robes looked completely different than women's robes. I'll even take a historical reference that's reliable. IOW, not from Wikipedia.
6. If wearing robes was part of our culture as it was in Bible days, we wouldn't look like nut cases at all because such attire would be completely normal to wear.
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Thad, here is the verse in 1 Tim you are referring to and the definition according to the Strong's for 'apparel'. See for yourself that you have been misinformed.
1Ti 2:9
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
katastolhv
Transliterated Word
Katastole
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
kat-as-tol-ay' Noun Feminine
Definition
1. a lowering, letting down
2. a garment let down, dress, attire
According to that definition, it also means attire, not just a dress. It's also silly to say that it means 'dress' when NOBODY in those days wore such an item!
And here are other examples where MEN wore apparel:
Ac 1:10
And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Ac 12:21
And upon a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat upon his throne, and made an oration unto them.
Ac 20:33
I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
Jas 2:2
For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
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