The Difference Between the PCI of the Merger and the Current Counterfeits

[Truly Blessed]

I don't have time to post much right now, but thank you Daniel for your informative posts. The only place that the blood was applied was to the mercy seat and then that blood was appropriated as an atonement for the children of God. The washing at the laver was not the blood being applied. I don't recall any scripture that indicates the priest had blood on his hands when he observed the ceremonial cleansing at the laver. The blood was reserved for the mercy seat.

John's disciples were baptized for the remission of sins, but we know that it had nothing to do with the blood being applied because Jesus had not yet shed His blood.

Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. I believe we also fulfill all righteousness when we are baptized. Just as Abraham's faith and obedience was the basis for his righteousness, so our faith evidenced by our obedience in baptism identifies us with the righteousness of God and results in God conferring sonship and all the rights of sonship.

Can a person repent and not be forgiven? I feel that the PAJC position is so narrowly focused on making baptism the place where the blood is applied they miss other vital aspects of why a person needs to be baptized.

The blood is carried from the place of sacrifice right through the tabernacle to the mercy seat in the holiest of holies. We carry the blood with us from the moment we place faith in the sacrificial Lamb of God. We get into error when we try to separate the Spirit, the water, and the blood because they work in agreement not separately. (1John 5:8)

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

I don't have time to post much right now, but thank you Daniel for your informative posts. The only place that the blood was applied was to the mercy seat and then that blood was appropriated as an atonement for the children of God. The washing at the laver was not the blood being applied. I don't recall any scripture that indicates the priest had blood on his hands when he observed the ceremonial cleansing at the laver. The blood was reserved for the mercy seat.

John's disciples were baptized for the remission of sins, but we know that it had nothing to do with the blood being applied because Jesus had not yet shed His blood.

Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. I believe we also fulfill all righteousness when we are baptized. Just as Abraham's faith and obedience was the basis for his righteousness, so our faith evidenced by our obedience in baptism identifies us with the righteousness of God and results in God conferring sonship and all the rights of sonship.

Can a person repent and not be forgiven? I feel that the PAJC position is so narrowly focused on making baptism the place where the blood is applied they miss other vital aspects of why a person needs to be baptized.

The blood is carried from the place of sacrifice right through the tabernacle to the mercy seat in the holiest of holies. We carry the blood with us from the moment we place faith in the sacrificial Lamb of God. We get into error when we try to separate the Spirit, the water, and the blood because they work in agreement not separately. (1John 5:8)

I sit here this morning with tears streaming, Elder...I am at a loss at this time as just what to say...

[SDG]

I'm RUNNING TO THAT MERCY SEAT RIGHT NOW!!!! Get out my way, devil.

http://respiracreative.com/music/mercy.mp3

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

I don't have time to post much right now, but thank you Daniel for your informative posts. The only place that the blood was applied was to the mercy seat and then that blood was appropriated as an atonement for the children of God. The washing at the laver was not the blood being applied. I don't recall any scripture that indicates the priest had blood on his hands when he observed the ceremonial cleansing at the laver. The blood was reserved for the mercy seat.

John's disciples were baptized for the remission of sins, but we know that it had nothing to do with the blood being applied because Jesus had not yet shed His blood.

Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. I believe we also fulfill all righteousness when we are baptized. Just as Abraham's faith and obedience was the basis for his righteousness, so our faith evidenced by our obedience in baptism identifies us with the righteousness of God and results in God conferring sonship and all the rights of sonship.

Can a person repent and not be forgiven? I feel that the PAJC position is so narrowly focused on making baptism the place where the blood is applied they miss other vital aspects of why a person needs to be baptized.

The blood is carried from the place of sacrifice right through the tabernacle to the mercy seat in the holiest of holies. We carry the blood with us from the moment we place faith in the sacrificial Lamb of God. We get into error when we try to separate the Spirit, the water, and the blood because they work in agreement not separately. (1John 5:8)

THE MESSAGE. PLUS HIS RESURRECTION ... WE ENTER A NEW LIFE.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Yesterday, TB brought an interesting perspective of the blood being APPROPRIATED in Heaven ... perhaps it is based on a literal interpretation of literal tabernacle in heaven ... I'm not sure ....

One writer, David Stewart, in defense of the blood being appropriated in heaven writes:

The Heavenly Mercy Seat

The mercy seat is located within this tabernacle in Heaven, just as it was in the Old Testament tabernacle. God had required for the Jewish High Priest to perform a ceremonial sacrifice once per year to atone for the sins of the Israelite people. The sacrifice pictured the coming Messiah Who would someday die on the cross for the sins of all people. This ceremonial event ceased when Christ died on the cross because the shadow of things to come was now obsolete, Jesus had fulfilled the prophecy. The Old Testament tabernacle, priests, Holy of Holies and mercy seat were all a shadow (or replica) of the tabernacle and in Heaven. “Who serve unto the EXAMPLE AND SHADOW OF HEAVENLY THINGS, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount” (Hebrews 5:8). The Old Testament tabernacle was a mirror image of the tabernacle in Heaven where Christ would someday make the atonement with His shed blood. Jesus used His own blood which was shed on the cross to atone for our sins. Christ’s blood was applied to the mercy seat in heaven. For anyone to teach that Jesus’ blood is not of importance is a wicked lie. For anyone to diminish the necessity of the blood atonement is an abomination unto God.

Is there a mercy seat in heaven or is it the very throne of God?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

Can a person repent and not be forgiven? I feel that the PAJC position is so narrowly focused on making baptism the place where the blood is applied they miss other vital aspects of why a person needs to be baptized.

The blood is carried from the place of sacrifice right through the tabernacle to the mercy seat in the holiest of holies. We carry the blood with us from the moment we place faith in the sacrificial Lamb of God. We get into error when we try to separate the Spirit, the water, and the blood because they work in agreement not separately. (1John 5:8)

TB,

You talk a good talk and relate the OT types and shadows to the NT very well but I have to ask where is there a scripture that teaches forgiveness comes with initial faith in Christ? The only verse I can find that may help confirm forgiveness outside of water baptism is Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.I cannot think of any others beside this one and the washing of water by the word. Can you?

Maybe when you have more time you can bring out (with Bible support) how you think the blood of Christ is appropriated from the moment we place faith in the sacrificial Lamb of God until we are called home.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

I don't have time to post much right now, but thank you Daniel for your informative posts. The only place that the blood was applied was to the mercy seat and then that blood was appropriated as an atonement for the children of God. The washing at the laver was not the blood being applied. I don't recall any scripture that indicates the priest had blood on his hands when he observed the ceremonial cleansing at the laver. The blood was reserved for the mercy seat.

John's disciples were baptized for the remission of sins, but we know that it had nothing to do with the blood being applied because Jesus had not yet shed His blood.

Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. I believe we also fulfill all righteousness when we are baptized. Just as Abraham's faith and obedience was the basis for his righteousness, so our faith evidenced by our obedience in baptism identifies us with the righteousness of God and results in God conferring sonship and all the rights of sonship.

Can a person repent and not be forgiven? I feel that the PAJC position is so narrowly focused on making baptism the place where the blood is applied they miss other vital aspects of why a person needs to be baptized.

The blood is carried from the place of sacrifice right through the tabernacle to the mercy seat in the holiest of holies. We carry the blood with us from the moment we place faith in the sacrificial Lamb of God. We get into error when we try to separate the Spirit, the water, and the blood because they work in agreement not separately. (1John 5:8)

Standing "O," TB!!


Well said!

[Steve Epley]

Excuse me I said NOTHING about the blood being APPLIED in the water!!!!!!!!!!
I have went through this time and time again on FCF & NFCF the NT teaches NOTHING about the blood being APPLIED to anyone anytime!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The blood was shed at Calvary then placed on the Mercy Seat in Heaven BUT
FAITH in the blood shed forgives my sins when I repent!
FAITH in the blood shed remits my sins when his name is invoked at baptism.
FAITH in the blood shed fills me with the "life" of the blood which is His spirit.
FAITH in the blood shed covers my walk as I make my way to the Holiest All.
God doesn't dab me with blood on each of these experiences however these unique experiences are purchased and afforded by his blood that was shed to reject these are to reject the blood itself.
FROM the brazen altar to the Holiest of All was an experience afforded by His blood.
You folks remove the laver and the blood experience there but you do it at your own peril. Death awaited those who did not wash with WATER!
All your mumbo jumbo is nothing more than Baptist and Calvinist junk. Alll this foot work to deny the ONLY message of salvation taught in the NT
BLOOD-WATER-SPIRIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IN the OT types blood-oil-water-fire are seen in every type. When you take out the water the blood-oil-fire are of none effect.
From creation the Spirit moved(rested-brooded) on the face of the water it has NOT changed. NOT only blood came out HIs riven side but also WATER.
WATER is as important in God's Eternal plan as BLOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But in the natural and spiritual!
You guys are trying to make ONE aspect of God's Eternal plan cancel another aspect and it will never work.
Naaman's leprosy left when he DIPPED in WATER according to the saying of the man of God. Did the water heal the leprosy NO it was the PLACE chosen for the miracle to take place.
IN WATER baptism ALONE in this dispensation is where remission of sins takes place through faith in the invocation of the name. WATER doesn't wash it away the BLOOD cleanses it when by faith I appropriate the benefit of remission of sins when I am baptized in Jesus Name IN WATER! Have to go back to church but the Lord willing I shall return and figth every Baptist wearing an Apostolic name on this forum.

[ManOfWord]

"Swing away, Bro. E, swing away!"

[stmatthew]

Maybe the problem, Elder, is that many no longer have a correct understanding that water baptism is where the old man of sin is buried, and put off. Until the old man is buried and discarded, we would be as Paul stating, "Oh wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from this body of death".

Water Baptism is the place of circumcision of the flesh. It is where through faith in the operation of God, we put off the former man (man of sin). It is being buried with the man Christ Jesus, in order that we might be resurrected with him (Spirit baptism).

Jesus shows us the example. We enter into his death when we come to Calvary and repent. We put off the fleshly man when we are buried with him in water baptism. We resurrect to new life with him when we receive the Holy Ghost.