Do You Believe In Women Preachers?

[Weary Pilgrim]

I found a really interesting news article that came out today.

Gospel Today magazine was pulled from the christain store's

shelves because it is featuring Women Pastors!


Check this out!

http://www.ajc.com/services/content/...ne_pulled.html

[Sister Alvear]

I know several very sweet lady pastors...I admore them but that is not my call. However as a missionary I have had to fill in many times...I had rather so other things but never would I lift my finger ot voice against one.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

The name 'Junia' is a uniquely female name of the period. there was no male version of this name. To say that Junia could be a male name is not true. There is no evidence in historical record for Junia being anything but a female name of that period. Junia was a woman, and she was an apostle. An apostle is one who starts churches and thus is a person who pastors and is in leadership. There is no way around the fact that Paul elevated woman to leadership and pastoral status in the early church. His egalitarian approach to women was unparalled in his day both among Gentiles and Jews and is one of the ways that Christianity stood apart from the other religions of the time.

That's good assumptions and conjecture but that is all it is. You have no idea
Junia is a woman and you certainly have nothing that remotely suggests if Junia was a woman she preached. But it is a nice try. I give you an A for imagination and effort.

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

That's good assumptions and conjecture but that is all it is. You have no idea
Junia is a woman and you certainly have nothing that remotely suggests if Junia was a woman she preached. But it is a nice try. I give you an A for imagination and effort.

Pastor Epley, with all due respect, you're wrong. The name "Junia" in the historical record for that period ALWAYS refers to a woman. There is NO record of Junia being a male name. The odds of "Junia" being a male name are exponential so as to be virtually impossible. Rarely is something in biblical history as definitive as this. The Bible says she is an apostle, thus, by definition, she proclaimed the Gospel which is the definition of preaching.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

Pastor Epley, with all due respect, you're wrong. The name "Junia" in the historical record for that period ALWAYS refers to a woman. There is NO record of Junia being a male name. The odds of "Junia" being a male name are exponential so as to be virtually impossible. Rarely is something in biblical history as definitive as this. The Bible says she is an apostle, thus, by definition, she proclaimed the Gospel which is the definition of preaching.

Did you happen to consider the "historical record" that also calls Junia, Junias?
Parchments dated to the 9th century have the name written in as Junias.
Wether it's Junia or Junias, you don't have a strong case for women apostles or bishops.

Seeing that first century Jewish community was patriarchal, it would of been a major strech to consider that the first century Jewry would of even acknowledged female leadership over married or single adult men.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

The Bible says she is an apostle, thus, by definition, she proclaimed the Gospel which is the definition of preaching.

The Bible doesn't say she is an apostle. If indeed a woman it would be that they were noted among the apostles. Those apostles being the foundational twelve. To say she was an apostle would take some doing.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Did you happen to consider the "historical record" that also calls Junia, Junias?
Parchments dated to the 9th century have the name written in as Junias.
Wether it's Junia or Junias, you don't have a strong case for women apostles or bishops.

Seeing that first century Jewish community was patriarchal, it would of been a major strech to consider that the first century Jewry would of even acknowledged female leadership over married or single adult men.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

There is no record of any person in the culture of that period with the name of Junias. What you are referring to is a gloss. I have a strong case when the Bible says she was an apostle and you take into account all the women in the NT that were obvious in positions of spiritual leadership. You're right, Jewish culture was a patriarchal culture. But we aren't talking about Jewish culture. We are talking about Gentile,new covenant church culture. Two different things. Female leadership, among others things, was one of the distinctives of the early church. So much so that Pliny commented on it in his report when he marveled that the leadership of the Christian community in his locale were non-Jewish, slave women. Female leadership has been accepted in the Bible since the time of the judges. Jesus promoted females in his ministry. When he had the lady of the issue of blood testify in public about her healing he turned contemporary practice on its head. In I Corinthians it speaks of women prophecying, which in the NT is the same as proclaiming the word of God in public meetings, what we call preaching. Women were head of house churches in the NT. It just goes on and on. There is no reasonable way to deny that women were not spiritual leaders and 'preachers' in the NT. To do so is more reflective of modern cultural bias than it is of Paul's theology and practice.

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The Bible doesn't say she is an apostle. If indeed a woman it would be that they were noted among the apostles. Those apostles being the foundational twelve. To say she was an apostle would take some doing.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

Are you saying then that the only apostles were the original twelve? Paul was not an apostle?

[A_PoMo]

And what of Phoebe? Paul refers to her as the 'servant' of the church in Chechreae. Paul's use of this term for ministers in the NT and its synonomous with 'deacon' a person with administrative and is usually also a teacher of the word. In addition, he sent her to Rome with the letter to the Romans. Paul was no dummy, as cultured and educated Roman man Paul knew that Roman tradition was that the bearer of a letter had the authority from the writer of the letter to explain and interprete the contents of the letter to the hearer. In this context if that's not preaching, I don't know what is. Knowing the Roman and Jewish patriarchal preference don't you think Paul's sending of Phoebe on such an arduous journey and for such and important task was with a purpose? He could just have easily sent a young, single man. But he chose Phoebe, undeniably a woman,to deliver his epistle to Rome and to teach its contents to the church in Rome.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

There is no record of any male in the culture of that period with the name of Junias.

Strong Concordance Scholarship? Could you tell me why Junias Marcus was recorded by Pultarch in Galba 8? Junias Brutus lived around 58 BC?

The translators who wrote the name Junias in the 9th century understood that there were individuals named Junias, but still, say that it is Junia, through the Greek wording you still don't have a female apostle.

If Paul was trying to say that Junia was one of the apostles he would of episemoi with a genitive. If Paul did that he would of indicated that Andronicus and Junia(s) were indeed apostles. Paul uses episemoi with en and the dative. Which means that Andronicus and Junia(s) were outside of the apostles who knew the couple.

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

What you are referring to is a gloss.

Get off it. Gloss nothing, it is solid and your argument is conjecture.
Do you produce any soild facts that would back up the rest of the scripture?
No, your argument comes from an angle that says that Jesus and the apostles taught something outside of Torah, and made it up as they went along. Jesus constantly refers to the OT and backs up everyone of His statments with scripture. Not one Jewish religious scholar of Jesus' time was able to refute Him. Why? Because everything that Jesus or Paul taught was confirming was was written, not discounting it. Jesus said He came to fulfill complete the Law, not to destroy it.

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

I have a strong case when the Bible says she was an apostle and you take into account all the women in the NT that were obvious in positions of spiritual leadership.

Not too obvious, when you have to resort to Junia(s). Your case doesn't agree with the culture from Genesis all the way to Revelation.

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

You're right, Jewish culture was a patriarchal culture. But we aren't talking about Jewish culture. We are talking about Gentile,new covenant church culture.

Sorry, but Christianity was two groups joined into one group. The Jews were to keep the law as long as the temple stood and the Gentiles were to abstian from paganism. Still both groups were to be taught out of the only Bible that they had at that time. The Tanakh.

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

Two different things. Female leadership, among others things, was one of the distinctives of the early church.

The congregations were mixed in the early first century and none of those churches would of put up with women teaching adult males. Again you have no scriptural backing for your thought.

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

So much so that Pliny commented on it in his report when he marveled that the leadership of the Christian community in his locale were non-Jewish, slave women.

Can we see the quote you are refering to?

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

Female leadership has been accepted in the Bible since the time of the judges.

Sorry again, during the time of Deborah, Israel was in a deep backslidden condition. As concerning Israel it was frowned upon to have a woman kill a man in battle, and therefore because Barak refused to go without Deborah, Jael was used to kill Sisera. As Deborah warned Barak, that because he asked her to go with him the honor of battle would go to a female. Marking it as the indicator of the condition of Israel at the time of woman leadership.

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

Jesus promoted females in his ministry. When he had the lady of the issue of blood testify in public about her healing he turned contemporary practice on its head. In I Corinthians it speaks of women prophecying, which in the NT is the same as proclaiming the word of God in public meetings, what we call preaching. Women were head of house churches in the NT. It just goes on and on. There is no reasonable way to deny that women were not spiritual leaders and 'preachers' in the NT. To do so is more reflective of modern cultural bias than it is of Paul's theology and practice.

You have a lot of work on your hands trying to prove the above.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa