The Difference Between the PCI of the Merger and the Current Counterfeits

[Brother Price]

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. (Hebrews 9:22)

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47)

Jesus Christ told us that remission of sins would be preached in His name starting at Jerusalem. In Acts 2:38, Peter says that we are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. Hebrews says without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. You may say what you want, and have any other doctrine, but the Bible is clear that the Blood is applied for remission of sins, and this takes place at baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. It does not take place at faith, for if it did, baptism would not be necessary for salvation, and the scriptures would be a liar. But, let God be true and every man a liar.

It does not concern me what type of church you are part of. If you have not been born again the Bible way, you are still as lost as the rankest of sinner. If you tell a sinner that he/she does not need to be baptized, that is false doctrine and against scripture. Everyone wants scripture, and it is above. Without shedding of blood, there is no remission. We receive remission when we are baptized. Thus, the blood is applied at baptism.

[Blsdbeyondmsure]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. (Hebrews 9:22)

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47)

Jesus Christ told us that remission of sins would be preached in His name starting at Jerusalem. In Acts 2:38, Peter says that we are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. Hebrews says without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. You may say what you want, and have any other doctrine, but the Bible is clear that the Blood is applied for remission of sins, and this takes place at baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. It does not take place at faith, for if it did, baptism would not be necessary for salvation, and the scriptures would be a liar. But, let God be true and every man a liar.

It does not concern me what type of church you are part of. If you have not been born again the Bible way, you are still as lost as the rankest of sinner. If you tell a sinner that he/she does not need to be baptized, that is false doctrine and against scripture. Everyone wants scripture, and it is above. Without shedding of blood, there is no remission. We receive remission when we are baptized. Thus, the blood is applied at baptism.

Out of curosity, is this what your former pastor in Houston, SB, teaches?

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

The blood is not in the name of Jesus. The blood is in heaven. It is not applied, it is appropriated. The name of Jesus is the means by which we can appropriate the blood. We appropriate the blood the moment we call on the name of the Lord in faith and repentance. We appropriate the blood when we call on the name of the Lord in baptism. We continue to appropriate the blood whenever we confess our sins and God forgives us our sins as we walk as a child of God in this journey of faith.

Originally Posted by Barb

TB, I promise you that until this was mentioned some time ago at FCF, I had never heard this, and I was born and bred in the Apostolic Church.

I was taught that the ONLY way the Blood is applied is in baptism in the Name...never heard tell of appropriated in my life.

This is very interesting...

To the ministers who hold a 'PAJC' view of salvation, is what I was taught re the Blood being applied at batism what you teach?!

[Brother Price]

Originally Posted by Blsdbeyondmsure

Out of curosity, is this what your former pastor in Houston, SB, teaches?

He denied the necessity of baptism in Jesus name as part of salvation. He said that it was something he would not go to Heaven without, but he no longer believed it was necessary. This is why we parted ways.

[whollyHis]

Originally Posted by Barb

To the ministers who hold a 'PAJC' view of salvation, is what I was taught re the Blood being applied at batism what you teach?!

Barb..I have been taught this all of my life. Your sins are forgiven at repentance, washed away when the blood is applied through baptism, and you 'rise to walk' in newness and new power of life after the Holy Ghost is received. Miss any of these steps and you are lost...

I never knew that there were other beliefs on the method within the Apostolic ranks until I joined FCF.


Ya learn sumpin new everday. LOL

[Barb]

Originally Posted by whollyHis

Barb..I have been taught this all of my life. Your sins are forgiven at repentance, washed away when the blood is applied through baptism, and you 'rise to walk' in newness and new power of life after the Holy Ghost is received. Miss any of these steps and you are lost...

I never knew that there were other beliefs on the method within the Apostolic ranks until I joined FCF.

Ya learn sumpin new everday. LOL

Nor did I...

[SDG]

The issue of when and where the blood is applied is an interesting one ...

Baptismal regenerationists tend to believe that the blood is applied in the baptismal waters or with the pronouncement of the name during the baptism ...

This model appears flawed, in my opinion, since there is no scriptural support for such a direct correlation and giant leaps of exegetical gymnastics to explain this phenomena ... not to mention that in scripture forgiveness and remission are synonyms.

Oneness scholars are not in agreement on this issue, including Daniel Seagraves, CLC President who wrote in a 1988 symposium:

A study of the Greek text would indicate that "forgiveness" and "remission" are synonyms, since in the King James Version both words are translated from the same Greek word, aphesis.3

Does the assertion that, on the one hand, forgiveness is obtained by repentance alone and, on the other hand, remission of sins is obtained by baptism in water by immersion in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ present a contradiction in the Articles of Faith of the U.P.C.I.?

Should there be an examination of the somewhat popular teaching that sins are forgiven at repentance but are not remitted until water baptism?

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[SDG]

Yesterday, TB brought an interesting perspective of the blood being APPROPRIATED in Heaven ... perhaps it is based on a literal interpretation of literal tabernacle in heaven ... I'm not sure ....

One writer, David Stewart, in defense of the blood being appropriated in heaven writes:

For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now TO APPEAR IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD FOR US” (Hebrews 9:24). Jesus had to appear before God the Father with the shed blood. This is why He told Mary not to touch Him when He arose from the dead. “Jesus saith unto her, TOUCH ME NOT; FOR I AM NOT YET ASCENDED TO MY FATHER: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God” (John 20:17). If Mary had touched Jesus, the blood sacrifice would have been tainted with corruption. Jesus was heading towards heaven with the blood which needed to be applied to the mercy seat in Heaven. “Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an HIGH PRIEST, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens” (Hebrews 8:1). Jesus is our High Priest! “Seeing then that we have a great HIGH PRIEST, that is passed into the heavens, JESUS THE SON OF GOD…” (Hebrews 4:14). Jesus’ tabernacle is in Heaven, not on earth, “A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man” (Hebrews 8:2).


The Heavenly Mercy Seat

The mercy seat is located within this tabernacle in Heaven, just as it was in the Old Testament tabernacle. God had required for the Jewish High Priest to perform a ceremonial sacrifice once per year to atone for the sins of the Israelite people. The sacrifice pictured the coming Messiah Who would someday die on the cross for the sins of all people. This ceremonial event ceased when Christ died on the cross because the shadow of things to come was now obsolete, Jesus had fulfilled the prophecy. The Old Testament tabernacle, priests, Holy of Holies and mercy seat were all a shadow (or replica) of the tabernacle and in Heaven. “Who serve unto the EXAMPLE AND SHADOW OF HEAVENLY THINGS, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount” (Hebrews 5:8). The Old Testament tabernacle was a mirror image of the tabernacle in Heaven where Christ would someday make the atonement with His shed blood. Jesus used His own blood which was shed on the cross to atone for our sins. Christ’s blood was applied to the mercy seat in heaven. For anyone to teach that Jesus’ blood is not of importance is a wicked lie. For anyone to diminish the necessity of the blood atonement is an abomination unto God.


The Blood Applied in Heaven

Just as the Jewish High Priest was required to enter into the Holy of Holies once a year, likewise Christ had to enter into the Holy of Holies to appear before God. The Old Testament tabernacle was divided into three parts: the outer court, the inner court and then the Holy of Holies. Only certain priests who followed certain cleansing rituals were allowed into the inner court. Absolutely no one could enter into the Holy of Holies except a certain high priest once a year. Disobeying certain rules meant death. For example, if the high priest entered into the Holy of Holies without the lamb’s blood, God would have killed him. The blood atonement is sacred to God. This is serious business with our Lord. We must not make light of something that God holds dear. “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But WITH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot” (1st Peter 1:18,19).

[SDG]

Bernie Gillespie, a favorite scholar of mine .... RR should know who he is....

has written an excellent study of the history of the blood being applied theories in the Pentecostal movement ... it is fascinating to see what men like Haywood, Ewart and others thought about the subject of the when and where the blood is applied ....

I refer you to his site:

http://www.inchristalone.org/WhenBloodAppliedpt1.html <<< HIGHLY RECOMMENDED

Later I'll post his meat and bones explanation about when and where the blood is applied.

Gillespie is da man