Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening... - Page 82

Newman · #**811** 05-08-2008, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mrs

Whatever age the law requires according to the state/country residence is taken in.

Ok. So do you think it was justified to take ALL the children away (half of them being quite young) over what may prove to be a very small number of 16 year olds who considered themselves married according to the dictates of their religion?

Quote:

These laws were put in place for a reason. To protect children who are deemed unable to make informed decisions for themselves.

Arguably if you shelter a child all of her life behind ranch fences; reaching adulthood is not suddenly going to grant her any more freedom to chose a life different than she was raised with, is it?

Quote:

Maybe the polygamist groups should move to New Hampshire to avoid breaking laws.

Umm... They tried that and it didn't work. After they bought property in Texas, lawmakers changed the marriage age of fourteen with parental consent to sixteen with parental consent. Furthermore, they did it specifically and unequivicably because of their new neighbors. That smacks of discrimination.

Btw- It matters because legal analysts aren's so sure that a ban on polygamy can withstand Constitutional challenge today given the Supreme Court's new stance on homosexuality; and society's changing mores regarding adultery, fornication, divorce, etc.

Newman · #**812** 05-08-2008, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

I still don't see why ALL the children had to be removed for what appears to be just a few (when you consider the total numbers) children having children.

EXACTLY!

Newman · #**813** 05-08-2008, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mrs

A better question:

Why are they 'marrying' minors? And having children as children themselves?

Why can't this polygamist groups just wait till these children are adults?

If they want to live together as adults, I have no problem with that. That would be living out their religious convictions without breaking any laws.

How many individual prosecutions do you think it would have taken before they got that message and did just what you suggest?

One? Two?

ChristopherHall · #**814** 05-08-2008, 08:38 PM

I think America is heading back toward a day when marriage was considered a private contract. Originally you didn't need any permission from the state to consider yourself "married".

The Mrs · #**815** 05-08-2008, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newman

Ok. So do you think it was justified to take ALL the children away (half of them being quite young) over what may prove to be a very small number of 16 year olds who considered themselves married according to the dictates of their religion?

Yes. They teach them it's okay to break the laws of the land to live out their religious convictions. From an early age they are groomed to be child brides, and boys are groomed to take child 'wives'. This is still child abuse we're talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newman

Arguably if you shelter a child all of her life behind ranch fences; reaching adulthood is not suddenly going to grant her any more freedom to chose a life different than she was raised with, is it?

Of course it does. She will be an ADULT, with ADULT abilities to choose. A child is deemed unable to make those choices. That's why they don't get to choose.

Maybe this is the real problem behind the child brides. They were losing too many as 'adults' and had to catch them when they were younger?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newman

Umm... They tried that and it didn't work. After they bought property in Texas, lawmakers changed the marriage age of fourteen with parental consent to sixteen with parental consent. Furthermore, they did it specifically and unequivicably because of their new neighbors. That smacks of discrimination.

According to the Marriageable Ages at Wikipedia, it looks like Texas just joined the standard by raising the age. The majority of marriagable ages around the world is 18, 16 with parental consent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newman

Btw- It matters because legal analysts aren's so sure that a ban on polygamy can withstand Constitutional challenge today given the Supreme Court's new stance on homosexuality; and society's changing mores regarding adultery, fornication, divorce, etc.

It's never been about polygamy for me. Society does not frown on 'shacking up' like it used to. That's all I see them as doing. Throw in a religious conviction and surely it must be okay.

Newman · #**816** 05-08-2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mrs

Yes. They teach them it's okay to break the laws of the land to live out their religious convictions. From an early age they are groomed to be child brides, and boys are groomed to take child 'wives'. This is still child abuse we're talking about.

Do you agree then with Texas taking all the children including those under five years old?

How many sixteen year olds would have to get married for you to arrive at whatever conclusion you arrive at?

Newman · #**817** 05-08-2008, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mrs

According to the Marriageable Ages at Wikipedia, it looks like Texas just joined the standard by raising the age. The majority of marriagable ages around the world is 18, 16 with parental consent.

I agree that Texas was catching up with the rest of the Western world when they adjusted the age of marriages BUT that wasn't why they did it. The motivation for what was done is the critical Constitutional issue.

The Mrs · #**818** 05-08-2008, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newman

I agree that Texas was catching up with the rest of the Western world when they adjusted the age of marriages BUT that wasn't why they did it. The motivation for what was done is the critical Constitutional issue.

You would have to prove that motivation.

Newman · #**819** 05-08-2008, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mrs

You would have to prove that motivation.

Hahaha The newspapers accounts already proudly declared how the community came together to get it done because of their new neighbors. Obviously they didn't consult with a lawyer before telling the world what they did.

The Mrs · #**820** 05-08-2008, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newman

Do you agree then with Texas taking all the children including those under five years old?

How many sixteen year olds would have to get married for you to arrive at whatever conclusion you arrive at?

Until they adopt and teach a different belief of being adults when 'wed', yes, I agree. You really can't get away from the fact that this really is a cult, with dictators at the helm. Dictators that teach you it's okay to be married and bear children at the ages of 13, 14, or 15.

I'm not sure I understand your second question.