Tithing…Is it a command?

[Esphes45]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

No I don't stone them, but I teach it is a sin. I don't think the apostles explicitly teach against homosexuality in scriptures and according to your logic it would be wrong to teach against it. Since it is just OT.

I guess the key word here being explicitly.

[KeptByTheWord]

Flaming... the easiest way to meet in the middle between the "tithers" and the "nontithers" would be to admit that the 10% is a good measuring stick for giving, but it is not a mandated "give or else" doctrine.

Tithing is not mentioned in the doctrinal foundations given to us in Hebrews 6:1, but you would think it was by the amount of time spent on teaching it in most churches. More valuable time should be spent on teaching how giving involves much more than just dollars and cents. Giving of your time, in most cases, is far more costly, and sacrificial than giving of the almighty dollar. Visiting prisons, nursing homes, the elderly, sick, handicapped, helping out a neighbor, volunteering in soup kitchens etc. ... these are just a few things that are part of living out a giving concept and a lifestyle that doesn't always have to involve a dollar bill.

[Godsdrummer]

Tithes and offering

So it seems we have gone around the circuit, with the tithe issue with no one being the winner. Ya I know it is not about anyone winning.

I have notice the differences in understanding of the OT command to tithe, based on what they have been taught. The thing is most of the teachings are not what is scriptural. neither is the power that many give to the priest. The priest had one primary obligation, that was the ministry to God within the tabernacle. This primarily was the offering of the daily sacrifices unto God, the sin sacrifices for the people, basically ministering to God, not to or for the people. The implication to teach was secondary, and only when the people has forsaken to obey God's commands. This ministry was given to the parents.

I might add that the tithe was never solely for the priest, and was not solely given to the priest. And was not monetary, but agricultural. And this was both for the lively hood of the priest and the needy.

Another thing that seems to be missed is that the priest hood is no longer in effect, because Christ has become our priest. The ministerial gifts are just that gifts, not positions of authority as found in most if not all the religious world today. We tend to misread Ephesians in our attempt to make the gifts of ministries in the church have an unbiblical authority. Let me emphasis this one more time. In the beginning the priest in the OT did not have the authority we have read into scriptures. And by that same token neither did the apostles in the New Testament have the authority as so many claim they had.
I was reading something someone else said, about how if the church did not obey an instruction that Paul had written to them, then said church would then be in disobedience to Paul. Where do we continue to get this idea of there being a separation between the saints and ministry? We see none of this type of separation in the ministry of Christ. Neither do we ever find Christ exercising authority over the people. Christ did not separate himself nor hold himself above the people and even taught against this. Too many use Ephesians 4:11-12 and Hebrews 13:17 as passages that supposedly give the ministry authority to rule over the saints. If this is so then why does Paul speak against this idea in Ephesians 5:21-26. He states that we are to submit one to another, and that Christ is the head of the church over the husband, he does not even imply a pastor nor one of the other so called ministries between Christ and the family.
We have been taught that God always speaks through a man, while this may be true in some instances, but in those instances, never in those times does God give authority to that man/women, that if you don’t obey them you are in rebellion to the man/woman. As a matter of fact, Paul stated that we are to be persuaded by those that oversee the church, not blindly being obedient to them just because they hold a position that is not scriptural in the first place.
So how might you ask does this relate to paying tithes? Simple really, if there is no authoritive rule in the church, then there is first off no need to pay a person in authority. Secondly to go back under the teaching of paying a tenth, puts one back under the law, which it has been stated by the apostles that to keep one part of the law makes one subject to all the law.
Does this mean that there are not services, or servants within the body that should be paid? Of course there are. Even Paul said that if one serves as a minster that they should be able to live of the ministry. “Muzzle not the ox that treads the corn” Going back to the ministries spoken by Paul in Ephesians and overseers spoken of by Paul within the body, if their work takes up more time ministering to the body, that they cannot support themselves outside the body, they should be recompensed from the body. While the financial support of the body can be given as a tenth or simply in the form of offerings, there is no primary set obligation other than to give cheerfully and from the abundance of the heart.
Of course I realize that there are those that will disagree with part or all of this, but this is my stand from my personal study.

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Flaming... the easiest way to meet in the middle between the "tithers" and the "nontithers" would be to admit that the 10% is a good measuring stick for giving, but it is not a mandated "give or else" doctrine.

Tithing is not mentioned in the doctrinal foundations given to us in Hebrews 6:1, but you would think it was by the amount of time spent on teaching it in most churches. More valuable time should be spent on teaching how giving involves much more than just dollars and cents. Giving of your time, in most cases, is far more costly, and sacrificial than giving of the almighty dollar. Visiting prisons, nursing homes, the elderly, sick, handicapped, helping out a neighbor, volunteering in soup kitchens etc. ... these are just a few things that are part of living out a giving concept and a lifestyle that doesn't always have to involve a dollar bill.

[Esphes45]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Flaming... the easiest way to meet in the middle between the "tithers" and the "nontithers" would be to admit that the 10% is a good measuring stick for giving, but it is not a mandated "give or else" doctrine.

Tithing is not mentioned in the doctrinal foundations given to us in Hebrews 6:1, but you would think it was by the amount of time spent on teaching it in most churches. More valuable time should be spent on teaching how giving involves much more than just dollars and cents. Giving of your time, in most cases, is far more costly, and sacrificial than giving of the almighty dollar. Visiting prisons, nursing homes, the elderly, sick, handicapped, helping out a neighbor, volunteering in soup kitchens etc. ... these are just a few things that are part of living out a giving concept and a lifestyle that doesn't always have to involve a dollar bill.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Tithes and offering

So it seems we have gone around the circuit, with the tithe issue with no one being the winner. Ya I know it is not about anyone winning.

I have notice the differences in understanding of the OT command to tithe, based on what they have been taught. The thing is most of the teachings are not what is scriptural. neither is the power that many give to the priest. The priest had one primary obligation, that was the ministry to God within the tabernacle. This primarily was the offering of the daily sacrifices unto God, the sin sacrifices for the people, basically ministering to God, not to or for the people. The implication to teach was secondary, and only when the people has forsaken to obey God's commands. This ministry was given to the parents.

I might add that the tithe was never solely for the priest, and was not solely given to the priest. And was not monetary, but agricultural. And this was both for the lively hood of the priest and the needy.

Another thing that seems to be missed is that the priest hood is no longer in effect, because Christ has become our priest. The ministerial gifts are just that gifts, not positions of authority as found in most if not all the religious world today. We tend to misread Ephesians in our attempt to make the gifts of ministries in the church have an unbiblical authority. Let me emphasis this one more time. In the beginning the priest in the OT did not have the authority we have read into scriptures. And by that same token neither did the apostles in the New Testament have the authority as so many claim they had.
I was reading something someone else said, about how if the church did not obey an instruction that Paul had written to them, then said church would then be in disobedience to Paul. Where do we continue to get this idea of there being a separation between the saints and ministry? We see none of this type of separation in the ministry of Christ. Neither do we ever find Christ exercising authority over the people. Christ did not separate himself nor hold himself above the people and even taught against this. Too many use Ephesians 4:11-12 and Hebrews 13:17 as passages that supposedly give the ministry authority to rule over the saints. If this is so then why does Paul speak against this idea in Ephesians 5:21-26. He states that we are to submit one to another, and that Christ is the head of the church over the husband, he does not even imply a pastor nor one of the other so called ministries between Christ and the family.
We have been taught that God always speaks through a man, while this may be true in some instances, but in those instances, never in those times does God give authority to that man/women, that if you don’t obey them you are in rebellion to the man/woman. As a matter of fact, Paul stated that we are to be persuaded by those that oversee the church, not blindly being obedient to them just because they hold a position that is not scriptural in the first place.
So how might you ask does this relate to paying tithes? Simple really, if there is no authoritive rule in the church, then there is first off no need to pay a person in authority. Secondly to go back under the teaching of paying a tenth, puts one back under the law, which it has been stated by the apostles that to keep one part of the law makes one subject to all the law.
Does this mean that there are not services, or servants within the body that should be paid? Of course there are. Even Paul said that if one serves as a minster that they should be able to live of the ministry. “Muzzle not the ox that treads the corn” Going back to the ministries spoken by Paul in Ephesians and overseers spoken of by Paul within the body, if their work takes up more time ministering to the body, that they cannot support themselves outside the body, they should be recompensed from the body. While the financial support of the body can be given as a tenth or simply in the form of offerings, there is no primary set obligation other than to give cheerfully and from the abundance of the heart.
Of course I realize that there are those that will disagree with part or all of this, but this is my stand from my personal study.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Flaming... the easiest way to meet in the middle between the "tithers" and the "nontithers" would be to admit that the 10% is a good measuring stick for giving, but it is not a mandated "give or else" doctrine.

Tithing is not mentioned in the doctrinal foundations given to us in Hebrews 6:1, but you would think it was by the amount of time spent on teaching it in most churches. More valuable time should be spent on teaching how giving involves much more than just dollars and cents. Giving of your time, in most cases, is far more costly, and sacrificial than giving of the almighty dollar. Visiting prisons, nursing homes, the elderly, sick, handicapped, helping out a neighbor, volunteering in soup kitchens etc. ... these are just a few things that are part of living out a giving concept and a lifestyle that doesn't always have to involve a dollar bill.

Yes that's it.

[good samaritan]

I have been thinking about Abraham giving tithes to Melchisedek. Many here argue that it is not a good example of tithing because he only done it once, it was from spoils of war and not his personal possessions.

1) it became his the moment he defeated the enemy and he tithed as an expression of gratefulness for God giving him the victory (God prospered him)
2)Abraham tithed spoils of war and not food because he tithed from relationship and not the law of Moses.
3)The bible only explicitly says that Abraham tithed once, but that doesn't mean he didn't tithe regular. Abraham was a shepherd and the flock would have been his increase. Many times scripture mentions Abraham sacrificing and even Isaac was familiar with the process when he was going up Mt. Moriah to be sacrificed. Jacob bargained with God to tithe if God would provide for him. It could be thought that he picked this up from his family through direct teaching or family practices.

I am not saying that tithing is a mandated heaven/hell issue for NT church, but wish we all professing Christians where as God fearing, God believing, and God giving as Abraham. The church is supposed to be the grafted in children of Abraham. That is the children of faith. Faith compels us to go much further than the law ever could.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I have been thinking about Abraham giving tithes to Melchisedek. Many here argue that it is not a good example of tithing because he only done it once, it was from spoils of war and not his personal possessions.

1) it became his the moment he defeated the enemy and he tithed as an expression of gratefulness for God giving him the victory (God prospered him)
2)Abraham tithed spoils of war and not food because he tithed from relationship and not the law of Moses.
3)The bible only explicitly says that Abraham tithed once, but that doesn't mean he didn't tithe regular. Abraham was a shepherd and the flock would have been his increase. Many times scripture mentions Abraham sacrificing and even Isaac was familiar with the process when he was going up Mt. Moriah to be sacrificed. Jacob bargained with God to tithe if God would provide for him. It could be thought that he picked this up from his family through direct teaching or family practices.

I am not saying that tithing is a mandated heaven/hell issue for NT church, but wish we all professing Christians where as God fearing, God believing, and God giving as Abraham. The church is supposed to be the grafted in children of Abraham. That is the children of faith. Faith compels us to go much further than the law ever could.

Still trying to make tithing a suggested "principle" I see....hmmm.

Again, that is how it all started in the first place. Who cares whether Abraham gave to the pagan "property tax" of tithing. Who cares if this tax was ingrained in the head of Jacob to the point of making a "bargain" with God.(though he had no place to give the 10th, so he just used it for personal stuff). Who cares if the tithe concept was adopted into the Law of Moses as a fundraiser to keep the temple worship sustained financially.

Have you thought of what the "temple" of God is today?
Have you thought of who the "priests" of God are today?

We really should tithe to OURSELVES, and take care of our "priestly" families if we are to tithe at all.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I have been thinking about Abraham giving tithes to Melchisedek. Many here argue that it is not a good example of tithing because he only done it once, it was from spoils of war and not his personal possessions.

1) it became his the moment he defeated the enemy and he tithed as an expression of gratefulness for God giving him the victory (God prospered him)
2)Abraham tithed spoils of war and not food because he tithed from relationship and not the law of Moses.
3)The bible only explicitly says that Abraham tithed once, but that doesn't mean he didn't tithe regular. Abraham was a shepherd and the flock would have been his increase. Many times scripture mentions Abraham sacrificing and even Isaac was familiar with the process when he was going up Mt. Moriah to be sacrificed. Jacob bargained with God to tithe if God would provide for him. It could be thought that he picked this up from his family through direct teaching or family practices.

I am not saying that tithing is a mandated heaven/hell issue for NT church, but wish we all professing Christians where as God fearing, God believing, and God giving as Abraham. The church is supposed to be the grafted in children of Abraham. That is the children of faith. Faith compels us to go much further than the law ever could.

G.S. If tithing was a forever principle it would have been foolish for Jacob to even try and bargain with God. To act on faith is to believe and execute on what we are commanded.

Tithing was also practiced by pagans. Let's see what else they were doing and follow customs we may find suitable.

There is no command to have a building or build one to bring a tithe of money to.

Abraham according to your view is an example we might want to follow, correct? Ok, lets do and give the other 90% away.

Hinting that if we have faith we will tithe our money is manipulative. Abraham was following the custom of that day.

Let's make the case for preachers to preach the gospel for free as Paul did. He is a good example to follow--correct? Paul said imitate him even though you may have 10.000 instructors in Christ imitate him. You see how assuming what the will of God is by comparing could lead to?


To believe is to execute what God has commanded. God's word as you know keeps us safe from those who are predators.

Under Mosaic law not everyone tithed. In this shows a gap that a forever principle should be adhered to. Applying the science of Hermeneutics evaporates the forever principle because of the gap.

I don't know why people feel that no tithing of money spells no support for ministry. The richest religion in the world {Catholics}doesn't mandate tithing money. Islam's tax is what, 2-2.5%?

God bless.