Why shouldn't I vote for Obama??

[Ferd]

I will say one good thing about Alabama.

being that he has vertually no experience in government, he hasnt had much time to really mess things up....yet.

[ChristopherHall]

To make it relevant, what has Obama accomplished in the area of improving education?

What are Obama's specific plans to improve education?

This is a silly question. Obama is a senator. Senators work in collaboration with other congressional leaders to pass bills and launch initiatives. Unless a man sponsors a bill his only contribution may be being a key vote in getting it passed. Therefore to assess this one would have to review every education bill passed through congress and signed into law by the President to see of Obama voted in favor of it. That’s why it’s easier for Governors to show actual political achievements and you’ll notice more than not, Governors are successfully elected to the office of President. One could easily ask the same of Senator John McCain. What has he done for education?

But let’s look at Obama’s record on education. This will be in brief but it is at least a start. Statements made by Obama on where he stands in regards to education:

• We need a sense of urgency about improving education system. (Sep 2007)
• Nationwide program to reconstruct crumbling school buildings. (Sep 2007)
• STEP UP: summer learning opportunities for disadvantaged. (Aug 2007)
• We left the money behind for No Child Left Behind. (Aug 2007)
• Pay "master teachers" extra, but with buy-in from teachers. (Aug 2007)
• Sends kids to private school; but wants good schools for all. (Jul 2007)
• Supreme Court was wrong on school anti-integration ruling. (Jul 2007)
• Incentives to hire a million teachers over next decade. (Jun 2007)
• Pay teachers more money & treat them like professionals. (Jun 2007)
• Public school system status quo is indefensible. (Oct 2006)
• More teacher pay in exchange for more teacher accountability. (Oct 2006)
• Guarantee affordable life-long, top-notch education. (Jun 2006)
• Provide decent funding and get rid of anti-intellectualism. (Jul 2004)
• Address the growing achievement gap between students. (May 2004)
• Will add 25,000 teachers in high-need areas. (May 2004)
• Supports charter schools and private investment in schools. (Jul 1998)
• Free public college for any student with B-average. (Jul 1998)

Voting Record on Education:

• First Senate bill: increase Pell Grant from $4,050 to $5,100. (Aug 2007)
• Sponsored legislations that recruit and reward good teachers. (Sep 2004)
• Voted YES on $52M for "21st century community learning centers". (Oct 2005)
• Voted YES on $5B for grants to local educational agencies. (Oct 2005)
• Voted YES on shifting $11B from corporate tax loopholes to education. (Mar 2005)

The only thing that sticks out in my mind at the moment about Hillary was a bill she helped put together around '92 or '93 that, among other things, sneaked in a provision that outlawed homeschooling and prohibited people from storing more than 3 months worth of food in their homes. Obviously folks didn't want her kind of help back then, and the bill never made it.

Can you cite the legislation? I’d be interested in reviewing it.

We homeschoolers are truly a thorn in the side of the NEA crowd. We are getting results that they can only dream of. I find it tragically shortsighted that their answer to this disparity is not to study our methods, but to attempt to stamp us out in the name of equality of outcome.

As long as homeschoolers are meeting current educational standards and students are scoring in proficiency testing, I see no issue with it. Our old church pushed a home schooling curriculum and did it as a group in a kind of “school” with volunteer teachers. Most of these kids can’t even read. Members were “expected” to send their kids to the school. It was one of the major factors that caused me to consider attending a different church.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl
To make it relevant, what has Obama accomplished in the area of improving education?

As usual, OP_Carl goes directly to the heart of the matter. One needs to also ask, "What Obama accomplished at all?" After defeating the ex-husband of Seven-Of-Nine for the open senate seat, he's spent most of his first term running for president.

I'm sure he's a nice guy and all, but what's he ever done?

If he wins this thing he's going to be leaning very heavily upon his camp followers and glad handers. And that's where the flag waving Che come back into the discussion; along with everyone else who is convinced that he owes them a favor.

See previous posts.

[ChristopherHall]

Email my wife just sent me:

More fodder for your healthcare debates on the internet, as long as you don’t use (EDITED) name…

What a shame that a woman’s grandchildren have to peddle Papa John’s fundraiser cards to pay for her cancer treatment in one of the wealthiest, most powerful countries on the planet…

~ T

From: (EDITED)
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 10:25 AM
To: (EDITED)
Subject: Grandma Fundraiser

Hello everyone!

Below is an email from my sister-in-law regarding a fundraiser that the grandchildren are doing to help raise money for my Mother-in-law's cancer treatment. For those of you that like pizza, it's a great deal!

If you'd like to purchase a card for $10, don't email/call my sister-in-law, as it says in the email. I have cards i my possession as well. You can call me at (EDITED) or email me at (EDITED)

Thanks!

(EDITED)
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: (EDITED)
To: (EDITED)
Who likes Pizza?????

The grandchildren have decided to get into the fundraising spirit. They will be selling Papa John Pizza peeler cards to help raise money for Mom's treatments. This is a GREAT fundraising idea since we have family/friends all over the U.S., so no matter where you live, you can all take advantage of this great deal. The cards are GREAT if you've never used them before. Each card contains 12 Buy one Get one FREE pizza's and then 1 completely FREE large pizza peeler. The cards come from South Central Indiana(Bloomington, Bedford, Salem, Washington, Seymour, North Vernon, Vincennes, Washington) , but can be used at ANY Papa John's restaurant. I called all the Papa John's in the Cincinnati/Dayton area and ALL said that they would honor this peeler card. But if you have questions, you can call your own local Papa John's to make sure or send me their phone number and I can call for you. If you get a different response, please let me know, because you may need to talk to the manager.

The peeler cards are only $10 and are good thru Dec 2009, so you have almost 2 full years to use these. So if you need 1 or 2, or know of a friend, family member, co-worker, or anyone else that could use this card, please forward this email or let us know by emailing me at (EDITED) .

The kids are asking their friends to help them with this venture, so if you or any member of your family would like to join their fight, please let us know. We all eat pizza, right? What better cause than to help this wonderful lady, (EDITED), and get your belly full at the same time!

Love and Thanks,
(EDITED) (and all the Grandbabies)

Frankly, political conservatives don't care. I get bombarded by these things because I'm a United Way liaison. We can do better than this in the US. I place the responsibility at the feet of political conservatives that firmly stand against any real efforts to help these people.

I don't care about your "philosophy" on government. I want to see what you're will to do to help people. Support Universal Health Insurance.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Email my wife just sent me:



Frankly, political conservatives don't care. I get bombarded by these things because I'm a United Way liaison. We can do better than this in the US. I place the responsibility at the feet of political conservatives that firmly stand against any real efforts to help these people.

I don't care about your "philosophy" on government. I want to see what you're will to do to help people. Support Universal Health Insurance.

I accept the blame.

the reason I accept the blame is because you are incapbale of dealing with issues in any manner other than an emotional one.

by accpeting the blame, It should aswage your guilt.

You can tell all your compassionate liberal friends that you have found the conservitive who is to blame!

God Bless and have a good day!

[Ferd]

These cases that get trotted out to prove how terrible things are do nothing to change the fact that universal healthcare are horrible responses to the issue at hand.

No conservitive believes that we should have less healthcare in America, nor do we believe that things are just fine thank you very much!

The healthcare in America is in many ways broken. We all agree on that.

the difference is, we seek real solutions that FIX the problems without turning America into Amerika.

WE DONT WANT YOUR STINKING COMMUNISM DUDE GET THAT THRU YOUR THICK SKULL!

What we want is to UNDO much of the insanity that has been inflicted on the American healthcare industry by idiot communists like the Hero of Chappiquittic. the HMO reform from the early 70's caused much of the issues we have with healthcare today.

There are ways to fix this. Socialism isnt one of them.

[DividedThigh]

there is no more compassionate , giving person that i know, than as my wife says i would give away it all to help someone else, point, i dont and will not support universal health care, it is stupid to turn over another 20 percent of the economy to a govt, that just mucks all it touches up, dt

[ChristopherHall]

I accept the blame.

Wonderful, because you’re part of the problem, people are dying.

the reason I accept the blame is because you are incapbale of dealing with issues in any manner other than an emotional one.

Human beings are emotional creatures. We are not emotionless cogs in the corporate machine you adore.

by accpeting the blame, It should aswage your guilt.

I have no guilt really. Last year alone I contributed nearly $1,000 to charitable causes. Being the United Way liaison (solicitor) I’m generous in my contributions. And I’m an advocate for the uninsured. I’m a contributor and a voice. How do you make a difference?

[ChristopherHall]

These cases that get trotted out to prove how terrible things are do nothing to change the fact that universal healthcare are horrible responses to the issue at hand.

Blah, blah, blah. Every westernized nation on earth has already had this debate and moved to universal health coverage. And they’re doing far better than we are with your free market schemes. And that’s just what they are…schemes. Massive money making schemes. I call it....the Conservative Predatory Health Care System. [/quote]

No conservitive believes that we should have less healthcare in America, nor do we believe that things are just fine thank you very much!

Then why do conservatives support initiatives that increase the numbers of the uninsured??? Caring for the sick isn’t profitable…unless you can profit off denying coverage. Then bingo…a thriving market and an underinsured/uninsured dying masses to thin population and help redistribute the wealth into the hands of the globalist private entities, just want the neo-con social engineers have always wanted. All based on false patriotism and phony religious piety to keep the drones marching, waving their flags, and praising the Jesus of Mammon.

The healthcare in America is in many ways broken. We all agree on that.

the difference is, we seek real solutions that FIX the problems without turning America into Amerika.

That’s easy to say. Can the conservatives offer a workable alternative for the 21st Century and this global economy? Something that doesn’t profit off allowing people to die or denying them coverage? I assure you…as long as the private insurance industry is in business that will be the result at the end of the day. Covering everyone would crush the industry.

WE DONT WANT YOUR STINKING COMMUNISM DUDE GET THAT THRU YOUR THICK SKULL!

You wouldn’t even know Communism if it bit you. You’re just paranoid. Hey, even Israel has universal health care.

What we want is to UNDO much of the insanity that has been inflicted on the American healthcare industry by idiot communists like the Hero of Chappiquittic. the HMO reform from the early 70's caused much of the issues we have with healthcare today.

HMOs and the system we’re currently stuck with was drafted by powers influenced by lobbyists of the private medical insurance industry. The private insurers can’t be trusted.

There are ways to fix this. Socialism isnt one of them.

What are they?

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by DividedThigh

there is no more compassionate , giving person that i know, than as my wife says i would give away it all to help someone else, point, i dont and will not support universal health care, it is stupid to turn over another 20 percent of the economy to a govt, that just mucks all it touches up, dt

It’s wonderful that so many are generous “individuals”. But as individuals we’re failing to meet the growing need. There are nearly 50 million uninsured today and in five to ten years there will be more. Charitable sources are unable to meet the need as it is. We’re talking about “health care”. That’s a life or death issue and 18,000 Americans die from lack of coverage or inadequate coverage for treatable conditions every year. If we can unite behind this as a moral imperative we can help save the lives of multiplied thousands and relieve struggling families and businesses that are being crushed with increasing health care costs.

Right now 20% of our economy (the health care industry) is writing up record losses (increasing every year) and passing those costs down to us in higher health care costs. Under a universal health insurance plan this industry would actually thrive more not less. Because they would actually receive payment for the services rendered. Right now we have nearly 50 million uninsured and many of them are getting treatment in ERs and not paying a thing. That’s driving up costs terribly. In a universal health insurance system all would be something toward their health care and the losses in the health care industry would be greatly diminished if not eliminated. It would set them free from treating for nothing and having to pass that cost down to us. It would stimulate the health care industry not harm it. That’s why increasing numbers of doctors and hospitals are advocating universal insurance coverage. The only ones really happy with the private system we have are…the insurance companies raking in record profits.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aside from the debate here; are any of you willing and able to help this family (mentioned above) who has a grand parent in need for cancer treatment? If so PM me and I’ll send you her contact information privately. You can describe yourself as a friend of Tara Hall’s (my wife) husband who heard about the need and wanted to contribute.