Communism vs Christianity

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

Under Marx did the workers benefit or where those in govt. rich while the workers were poor ?

Marx never got power... He never saw his vision of a utopian society come true... (it still has never come true)

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

to say that communism itself hates americans or everyone who espouses socialism hates America is even more ludicrous than saying its the anti-Christ... (note to self: if you are going to disagree, disagree with the most wrong statement, not the least wrong one...)

The simple fact is that an ideology that wants everyone to be healthy and not in poverty is not evil... and really that's what Christ encouraged, those who were well off to give to the poor and the sick so that the poor and the sick were all taken care off, thus making no one poor and people as healthy as possible...

thus, the goal of Marx and Christ, at least as far as social reform on this earth goes, were the same...

Now Christ also wanted to save people's souls, too... Whereas Marx wasn't worried about that, which is where they split...

I bow to your never ending knowledge Oh great one!!

[Scott Hutchinson]

I'm not sure but didn't Marx go insane ?I must admit govermental history is not something I know alot about.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

yes, and that is commendable...

but the fact is that:

A) it is sad that our society is that greedy that that needs to happen... There were people working above your grandfather who could have afforded to give him a little extra so he only had to work one job... but they didn't, why? Because they were greedy... Capitalism BREEDS greed...

Or could one say that "Greed created Capitalism?" There was greed long before Adam Smith documented the rise of Capital markets. But if we said that, then we'd be stuck with a tautology (greed=capitalism=greed) with no ontology; not an elegant philosophy.

So, how about: "People can be greedy"? That way we put the blame for greed where it squarely lies. Then we ask ourselves, "What is the solution to problems caused by greed?"

One soultion that many have found helpful is the Judeo-Christian ethic of independent labor (we are free to "work") along with its admonition to remember "the poor."

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

B) that isn't possible for everyone... Only so many people who are living in poverty can work 3 jobs before there aren't any extra jobs to go around either...

Let's not forget about the importance of motivation in work. People have to have hope that their labors will produce some benefit. Human beings (despited the example of the DMV) simply will not work in an environment where their labor has no tangible reward. There are a few saints among us who labor selflessly for the betterment of humanity - but they're not really fun people to be around.

I perfer to hang out with the guy who's working a little extra to afford the 64 inch screen before the playoffs. Capitalism adds a zest to life that is noticeably missing in Communism. Look at the Soviet Union; you had peasant/workers with jackets full of medals rewarding them for their "production" but empty store shelves.

Or could one say that "Greed created Capitalism?" There was greed long before Adam Smith documented the rise of Capital markets. But if we said that, then we'd be stuck with a tautology (greed=capitalism=greed) with no ontology; not an elegant philosophy.

So, how about: "People can be greedy"? That way we put the blame for greed where it squarely lies. Then we ask ourselves, "What is the solution to problems caused by greed?"

One soultion that many have found helpful is the Judeo-Christian ethic of independent labor (we are free to "work") along with its admonition to remember "the poor."

I would say your model sounds correct... lol

and I would also say that the socialism model Marx put forth is taking that Judeo-Christian model and pondering "what if everyone acted this way all the time??"...

Let's not forget about the importance of motivation in work. People have to have hope that their labors will produce some benefit. Human beings (despited the example of the DMV) simply will not work in an environment where their labor has no tangible reward. There are a few saints among us who labor selflessly for the betterment of humanity - but they're not really fun people to be around.

I perfer to hang out with the guy who's working a little extra to afford the 64 inch screen before the playoffs. Capitalism adds a zest to life that is noticibly missing in Communism. Look at the Soviet Union; you had peasant/workers with jackets full of medals rewarding them for their "production" but empty store shelves.

but all the bad in Russia happened because the government stole most of the money and gave the people scraps... one could argue that if Russia were truelly socialistic none of the societal problems it had would have occured...

Also... I like capitalism, too, so I agree with you there... And I think Marx realized that people had to be selfless to do socialism... I think his hope was that eventually a people would be selfless enough to do it...

[Sister Alvear]

America may have her faults and she does but I have been all around the world..America is a blessed land...for how long I do not know...

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

America may have her faults and she does but I have been all around the world..America is a blessed land...for how long I do not know...

hopefully forever, because the collapse of America, right now, would create a depression and a dark age like none the world has ever seen...

look what happened when Rome fell... America falling would be worse...

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

I bow to your never ending knowledge Oh great one!!

Get up Chuck!

He knows very little about Jesus or the Biblical teachings that clearly counter socialism and communism....much less about Marx.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx

Read em and weep while you are ROTFL!

This guy was as big a joke as his fans...maybe bigger.

Read the Criticisms section especially.

He is even more pathetic than when I had to study him in college. My professor at the time has since publicly denounced all the rubish that she tried to indoctrinate us with, on the Radio of all places.

Therefore there is still hope for the Marxists when they stop to put it all on the scale.

Originally Posted by Theophilus

Get up Chuck!

He knows very little about Jesus or the Biblical teachings that clearly counter socialism and communism....much less about Marx.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx

Read em and weep while you are ROTFL!

This guy was as big a joke as his fans...maybe bigger.

Read the Criticisms section especially.

He is even more pathetic than when I had to study him in college. My professor at the time has since publicly denounced all the rubish that she tried to indoctrinate us with, on the Radio of all places.

Therefore there is still hope for the Marxists when they stop to put it all on the scale.

you know that wikipedia is the single worst place for information on the planet earth, right???

either way, I'll check it out some time...

and if all the detractors say is "this isn't possible" I am fully aware that it isn't possible, doesn't mean it wouldn't be better than the current world...

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

you know that wikipedia is the single worst place for information on the planet earth, right???

either way, I'll check it out some time...

and if all the detractors say is "this isn't possible" I am fully aware that it isn't possible, doesn't mean it wouldn't be better than the current world...

wikipedia has a list of references also...it doesn't stand alone. Nevertheless, my study continued beyond that and it only gets better.

Brother, have you ever heard of the Two Kingdoms. We Christians are of a separate Kingdom than that of the world around us. We are now infiltrators well behind enemy lines during the final stages of an epic war saga. Our Spiritual orders are warfare oriented, our physical orders are quite different and almost to the contrary in substance save the fact that it is an inverse strategy based on the ultimate weapon set against our enemy: Love.

This is precisely why our enemies have killed us, want to kill us, and are forced to kill us if they are to have any hope at all. Strangely, our orders are not to kill them, herein lies one of our greatest weapons and stategies that yield the most damage, though it is hard to see without the right pair of eyes.

I can tell you why some of these principles have not produced the utopia that man would like to see. It is because they have taken them piecemeal for their own gain. They struggle to put it all together because they haven't got, nor want, all the pieces or the power.

Soon and very soon, we are going to see the King and the Kingdom take this world over and show us just how it all works. Until then we as Christians need to practice these principles for ourselves with all of the pieces and the power that makes the impossible possible. We struggle as well sometimes, but we have something that the world and most Christians do not. Yea, Greater is He that is in me...than he that is in the world.

Marx is a classic failure for all the counter productive (a little pun there for the Marxists) concepts that he tried to marry into his personal idea of the way things ought to run. He and his contemporaries, and all of his students since are perfect examples of man's wisdom run amuck while they dance around banging their heads and carrying on.

American Capitalism and the American way at large has its problems and short comings, but it is a great deal better because it employs a great deal better group of principles that function. It is not as incoherent and dysfunctional...both traits can be seen in Marx in much of his thinking and personal life. May God have mercy on his troubled soul.

Therefore, do not expect much from the world that has forgotten or at least has tried real hard to forget their God, some of His key Principles, and certainly His Power. One will rise up during these last days and try to sew it all up for us, but he is not the King, just a cheap imitation that will fail miserably. Though he likes to think that he is God and tries really really hard to play God and convince others that he is God, or in the least can win a war with God despite his first colossal spanking, he is a wee little miserable lying loser behind it all.

Nevertheless, remember:

Jesus is not a communist, nor a socialist....


.....HE is King.