Hehehe. Basically, what I was saying is that, yes, we are required to forgive someone when they ask, but I do not think we are required to forgive someone who doesn't ask. If we are required to forgive someone who doesn't ask, then God expects more from us than He expects from Himself. If God forgives our sin without us asking then there would be no need for anyone to ask for His forgiveness. Asking for His forgiveness is the most basic component of receiving salvation. Keep in mind that I also believe it isn't a good idea for us not to forgive someone, whether they ask or not, but that has more to do with human weakness than God requiring us to forgive before someone asks us to forgive them. Make sense now?
I'm not sure, but are you saying there is a difference in not forgiving someone because they didn't ask and having unforgiveness in your heart?
What do you think of this verse?
Mt 6:15
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
That verse doesn't say that you don't have to forgive unless asked. That's the point I find conflicting in accordance to scripture.
I also don't find where the Bible says that God doesn't expect something from us that He doesn't do Himself. God requires a lot from us that He doesn't do Himself....because He is God. For instance, God requires worship, but He Himself doesn't worship.
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Matthew 18:21-22 doesn't seem to imply that the offender asked forgiveness, so on that point I agree.
I do think what Rico brought up is interesting though.
If God doesn't forgive if someone doesn't ask how can we be better than God?
I think the difference is that when we don't forgive, it's because we are holding unforgiveness in our heart. God isn't doing that by not forgiving us until He's asked.
Then again, I see the asking of forgiveness by us to God to be more for our benefit, not His. But that's another thread.
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Hehehe. Basically, what I was saying is that, yes, we are required to forgive someone when they ask, but I do not think we are required to forgive someone who doesn't ask. If we are required to forgive someone who doesn't ask, then God expects more from us than He expects from Himself. If God forgives our sin without us asking then there would be no need for anyone to ask for His forgiveness. Asking for His forgiveness is the most basic component of receiving salvation. Keep in mind that I also believe it isn't a good idea for us not to forgive someone, whether they ask or not, but that has more to do with human weakness than God requiring us to forgive before someone asks us to forgive them. Make sense now?
Rico,
I disagree. God extended the provision of forgiveness before we asked. While we were yet sinners Christ died for us. He did not wait until we asked. It did not change our lives until we did, though.
I disagree. God extended the provision of forgiveness before we asked. While we were yet sinners Christ died for us. He did not wait until we asked. It did not change our lives until we did, though.
That's what I meant by saying that asking forgiveness of God is more for our benefit than His, because He extended it to us already. But we have to ask in order to be changed.
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I disagree. God extended the provision of forgiveness before we asked. While we were yet sinners Christ died for us. He did not wait until we asked. It did not change our lives until we did, though.
But, "until we did", Matthew. Does that mean that God doesn't forgive? If not, then how does he expect us to be above what He is not willing to do?
The forgiveness of God was extended at the death of Christ. It is not appropriated by us until we "bow the knee".
It is kind of like me forgiving a person that has did me wrong without their asking for it. I am free from their deed, but until they ask me they are not. So likewise God has already extended forgiveness, but we are not free until we ask for it.
The forgiveness of God was extended at the death of Christ. It is not appropriated by us until we "bow the knee".
It is kind of like me forgiving a person that has did me wrong without their asking for it. I am free from their deed, but until they ask me they are not. So likewise God has already extended forgiveness, but we are not free until we ask for it.
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