How Many of HIS Creation will He Lose to "HELL"?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

I started a thread on gnc, "Is Hell Forever?". I basically state that God releases Satan after having him bound 1,000 years. Is 14:12-17, God accuses Satan of not releasing his prisoners. Psa. 146:7 says, "the Lord looseneth the prisoners". Lev 25:8-10, "after seven sabaths...ye shall return every man to his family". If God releases satan after 1,000 years and "looseneth the prisoners" in Isaiah, psalms and leviticus, it only makes sense He will release prisoners from hell after just punishment.

I have not considered these scriptures, however they are consistent with my view that God is a "consuming fire" that consumes the chaff and dross of sinners and not the sinners themselves.

Romans 5:18-21 Seems to support this view as well, declaring that the work of Christ is greater that the work of Satan or the sin of Adam.

"Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men." "For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many (the same many) will be made righteous."

"The law was added so that trepass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

These scriptures clearly state that, just as the one act of disobedience cursed all men, likewise the one act of Christ has (in the very same way brought justification to the same all men). Paul is clearly declaring the universal reconciliation of all men.

Sin was literally imposed on the human race, so that the full purpose of God's redemption can be experienced and man be completely converted.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

[stmatthew]

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The 2 key words here are "Everlasting" and "Eternal" They both are the same greek word and are used to describe both the timeframe of the final state of the saint and sinner alike:

aionios (ī-ō'-nē-os)


1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be

2) without beginning

3) without end, never to cease, everlasting

This is very simple, either the sinners shall go into punishment that "Everlasting" (without end), or the saints "eternal" life shall have an ending place.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The 2 key words here are "Everlasting" and "Eternal" They both are the same greek word and are used to describe both the timeframe of the final state of the saint and sinner alike:

aionios (ī-ō'-nē-os)


1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be

2) without beginning

3) without end, never to cease, everlasting

This is very simple, either the sinners shall go into punishment that "Everlasting" (without end), or the saints "eternal" life shall have an ending place.

A more accurate translation of aionios is "age-long". Hell is everlasting in that it is continuous suffering not eternal suffering. Rev. 20:14 clearly states that death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. v10 says the lake of fire is forever and ever. Nowhere can you find where hell is eternal, only age-long.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Have you read the parables of Jesus, have you read His responses to the religious leaders? I know you have, so do you accuse Jesus of the same "emotive and ad hominem arguments"? You use this same attack in every discussion, no matter the topic.

YOU are NOT Jesus. Jesus is NOT having a debate with me NOR are you quoting Jesus. Jesus is the WORD of God. When HE spoke God spoke. As I said, let the word of God be true and every man a liar. Jesus did not resort to appeal to emotions. He resorted to the TRUTH the WORD OF GOD. My My My......

BTW I use this reasoning any time I see it happening and I see it happening quite often, in your case though it seems to be the backbone of your position

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

I started a thread on gnc, "Is Hell Forever?". I basically state that God releases Satan after having him bound 1,000 years. Is 14:12-17, God accuses Satan of not releasing his prisoners. Psa. 146:7 says, "the Lord looseneth the prisoners". Lev 25:8-10, "after seven sabaths...ye shall return every man to his family". If God releases satan after 1,000 years and "looseneth the prisoners" in Isaiah, psalms and leviticus, it only makes sense He will release prisoners from hell after just punishment.

You know anyone can string a bunch of scriptures together to form any sort of argument. One verse says Judas went out and hung himself and another says Go you and do likewise. We must be very careful not to take things out of context

First of all Satan is not said to have been bound in the grave and then let loose. He was bound in the pit and loose "for a little while"
Rev 20:2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.
God releases satan and satan does what? Goes out an deceives again
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison
Rev 20:8 and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,
Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
And then note the Devil is tossed right back into a prison forever and ever!

Context.

Isa 14:11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, the sound of your harps; maggots are laid as a bed beneath you, and worms are your covers.
Isa 14:12 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!
Isa 14:13 You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north;
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'
Isa 14:15 But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit.
Isa 14:16 Those who see you will stare at you and ponder over you: 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms,
Isa 14:17 who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?
This is speaking of the king of Babylon, but even if it refers to Satan, this in no way disproves an eternal "hell" or lake of Fire.

Hell or Sheol here is simply the grave....most people when they say hell are referring to the lake of fire

• Psa 146:1 Praise the LORD! Praise the LORD, O my soul!
  Psa 146:2 I will praise the LORD as long as I live; I will sing praises to my God while I have my being.
  Psa 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation.
  Psa 146:4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.
  Psa 146:5 Blessed is he whose help is the God of Jacob, whose hope is in the LORD his God,
  Psa 146:6 who made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, who keeps faith forever;
  Psa 146:7 who executes justice for the oppressed, who gives food to the hungry. The LORD sets the prisoners free;
  Psa 146:8 the LORD opens the eyes of the blind. The LORD lifts up those who are bowed down; the LORD loves the righteous.

This doesn't, in any way say it is referring to prisoners kept in hell or the lake of fire.

The last verse in Leviticus is not talking about people who are judged and have died. It's not talking about prisoners either. It's talking about indentured servants...people who owed someone else and sold themselves to that person or family as servants..

and ye shall return every man unto his possession; which had been sold or mortgaged to another, but now reverted to its original owner:
and ye shall return every man unto his family; who through poverty had sold himself for a servant, and had lived in another family. The general design of this law was to preserve the rights of freeborn Israelites, as to person and property, to prevent perpetual servitude, and perpetual alienation of their estates; to continue families and estates as they were originally, that some might not become too rich, and others too poor; nor be blended, but the tribes and families might be kept distinct until the coming of the Messiah, to whom the jubilee had a particular respect, and in whom it ceased

This is typifying OUR redemption, not those that get a "second chance" after dying.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

A more accurate translation of aionios is "age-long". Hell is everlasting in that it is continuous suffering not eternal suffering. Rev. 20:14 clearly states that death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. v10 says the lake of fire is forever and ever. Nowhere can you find where hell is eternal, only age-long.

Define Eternal then. BTW does continuous have a end? does forever and ever have an end?

Note the contrast of eternal (aionios) punishment and aternal life?

A.T. Robertson says
The word aiōnios (from aiōn, age, aevum, aei) means either without beginning or without end or both. It comes as near to the idea of eternal as the Greek can put it in one word. It is a difficult idea to put into language. Sometimes we have "ages of ages" (aiōnes tōn aiōnōn).

[BrotherEastman]

*sniff sniff* Hey crak, now what? LOL!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Because something is not forgiven in this age or the age to come is not proof that it will never be forgiven, for the scripture speaks of many ages, such as the age of the ages. We see "thru a glass darkly", and His mercies never fail!

Mar 3:29

"But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath NEVER forgiveness, but is in DANGER of ETERNAL DAMNATION."

CJ, please re examine your above quote and compare it with Mark 3:29.

You will plainly see that Jesus says that ANYONE (meaning everyone and anyone) who BLASPHEME the Holy Ghost will NEVER HAVE FORGIVNESS and therefore will come under the penalty of ETERNAL DAMNATION.

If I do not understand your quote above please take the time to further explain your thoughts to me.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Define Eternal then. BTW does continuous have a end? does forever and ever have an end?

Note the contrast of eternal (aionios) punishment and aternal life?

A.T. Robertson says
The word aiōnios (from aiōn, age, aevum, aei) means either without beginning or without end or both. It comes as near to the idea of eternal as the Greek can put it in one word. It is a difficult idea to put into language. Sometimes we have "ages of ages" (aiōnes tōn aiōnōn).

Eternal or eternity is not a NT concept. It is used sparingly in the OT. Is 57:15 "the Lord inhabits eternity". All other references to eternity should be translated as age-long. Only God is eternal.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Mar 3:29

"But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath NEVER forgiveness, but is in DANGER of ETERNAL DAMNATION."

CJ, please re examine your above quote and compare it with Mark 3:29.

You will plainly see that Jesus says that ANYONE (meaning everyone and anyone) who BLASPHEME the Holy Ghost will NEVER HAVE FORGIVNESS and therefore will come under the penalty of ETERNAL DAMNATION.

If I do not understand your quote above please take the time to further explain your thoughts to me.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

"eternal" is an english word. The geek word aionios should have been translated "age-long damnation" not eternal damnation. Even though I do believe the wicked will suffer in the eternal lake of fire. Not all of the unsaved.