I Will Aoplogize To Dom

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Acts 2:45? I had eight verses before in mind. Either way, I made it to be the "hootinst, tootinist, shootinist bobtail wildcat in the west!”

Originally Posted by diakonos

He’s not holding two .38’s?

I just assumed they'd be 45s. Cause all REAL handguns are in calibers beginning with 4. Except .357 Magnum, but I couldn't fiigure out how Acts 3:57 would make sense...

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Michael,

Dom may not be "deceiving you". Many Preterists don't believe what most Evangelicals might call the "rapture" is mentioned anywhere in Matthew 24, Luke 21, or Mark 13.

For example, Matthew 24:29-31

Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Many Post-Trib Futurists see verse 31 as the "rapture". Many Pre-Trib Futurists see it as a final gathering of the elect, comprised of "Tribulation saints". I'm sure some Preterists might see this as a final gathering together of Christ's elect (what would be the equivalent of the Rapture), but many don't. Many other Preterists see this gathering by angels as more than just a single event immediately following the fall of the Temple in AD 70. They believe that after the fall of the Temple, the OT system was abolished. And now a new Covenant is in play. And so, beginning with the fall of the Temple, the angels in heaven have been strictly gathering the souls of Christ's Christian elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. This isn't a "gathering of the elect" in the since of a one time event "rapture". But rather it began in AD 70 and continues until this very day. It essentially describing angels gathering of the souls of the elect... at death.

I've also heard Preterists point out that the term "angelos" or "angel" is to be understood best as "messenger". They see these "messengers" gathering the elect as evangelists preaching the Gospel and gathering in the souls of the elect as a result of the preached Word.

As you can see, it can get confusing if Futurists assign a meaning to a text (like claiming it speaks of the rapture). To the Preterist, the text doesn't even mention the rapture at all.

So, Dom is most likely not trying to deceive anyone. There's simply a breakdown in communication because one side sees a text relating to a topic that the other doesn't see at all in the text.

Thank you Antipas. I have asked if he believed "the 2nd coming" happened in 70ad. I have asked if the "rapture and resurrection" took place in 70ad. I have asked if the "catching up" happened in 70ad. You can see by the first post in THIS THREAD I even used the phrase "translated the Church".

I know that word mean different things to different people. Thats why I have tried to use words and phrases that Bible believers are familiar with.

Then when words or phrases did not seem to connect thats why I asked him to just plainly lay out what he believes happened in 70ad. That is not hard to do you yourself proved that in this thread.

Now if people know that Dom is a full preterist and they know what that means and they are cool with it fine. It is not banned on this Forum. Thats why its been frustrating to try to get him to say outright what he believes TO ME.

He could have at any time sent me a link to where he addressed it on the Forum. His view IS here. But in MY.......discussions with him he never gave me links. He said look in Eschatology.

Thats supposed to be ok.

Yet when TK Burk asked me about the doctrine of perfection and I sent him 3 direct links right in the Fellowship Hall the same day he said he did not want to have to wade through the thread!

All that was in the thread was 3 videos. I personally spent hours looking at posts in Eschatology and never found Doms clear cut answer until Esaias sent me the link today.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I have always suspected what he believes. When I have asked him about it he always denied.

Lets see how this works.

Diakonos:

Do you believe Jesus came and resurrected the dead Christians and gathered the living to himself in 70ad?

Diakonos,

You want to give this a try? It don't have to be just yes or no.

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I just assumed they'd be 45s. Cause all REAL handguns are in calibers beginning with 4. Except .357 Magnum, but I couldn't fiigure out how Acts 3:57 would make sense...

Never heard of the preacher that carried an axe and two .38’s?

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Diakonos,

You want to give this a try? It don't have to be just yes or no.

I’m not a part of this circus.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Thank you Antipas. I have asked if he believed "the 2nd coming" happened in 70ad. I have asked if the "rapture and resurrection" took place in 70ad. I have asked if the "catching up" happened in 70ad. You can see by the first post in THIS THREAD I even used the phrase "translated the Church".

I know that word mean different things to different people. Thats why I have tried to use words and phrases that Bible believers are familiar with.

Then when words or phrases did not seem to connect thats why I asked him to just plainly lay out what he believes happened in 70ad. That is not hard to do you yourself proved that in this thread.

Now if people know that Dom is a full preterist and they know what that means and they are cool with it fine. It is not banned on this Forum. Thats why its been frustrating to try to get him to say outright what he believes TO ME.

He could have at any time sent me a link to where he addressed it on the Forum. His view IS here. But in MY.......discussions with him he never gave me links. He said look in Eschatology.

Thats supposed to be ok.

Yet when TK Burk asked me about the doctrine of perfection and I sent him 3 direct links right in the Fellowship Hall the same day he said he did not want to have to wade through the thread!

All that was in the thread was 3 videos. I personally spent hours looking at posts in Eschatology and never found Doms clear cut answer until Esaias sent me the link today.

I see what you're saying. It doesn't seem fair.

My point was what you might be asking might not even be logical in the Preterist framework. For example, if I asked where do I believe they put the cigarette lighter on the space shuttle, it wouldn't make sense. There is no cigarette lighter on the space shuttle. lol

Asking if Dom believes the "rapture" happened in 70 AD would make little sense if Dom is a full Preterist. He might believe that the catching away most call the "rapture" in these texts is simply the gathering together of the souls of the righteous unto Christ after death. If he answers "yes"... the Futurist will demand to know how all the saints were raised from the dead and gathered unto Christ without a grand and historically documented upheaval leaving every grave in the first century empty. If he says "no"... the futurist will then want to know when the rapture takes place for the Preterist. The Preterist must then explain that they do not believe in the "rapture" the way modern Zondervanite Evangelicals do.

I'm just saying the terms can add to the confusion and leave a Preterist frustrated and not wanting to explain for the 10,000th time or face the same empty accusations yet again and again.

Ask Dom what he thinks of a specific passage or verse. He might share more readily if you're just an open mind.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by diakonos

I’m not a part of this circus.

Then why this?

Posting together for over a decade and MTD is the only guy that doesn’t know what EB believes.

And now you are proving my point. Instead of answering a very easy question. You either do believe in full preterism or you dont. Answer any way you want. Yes or no. 2-3 paragraphs. A long study. A link you agree with.

Same thing I begged Dom for.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by diakonos

Never heard of the preacher that carried an axe and two .38’s?

[Bowas]

I find it extremely difficult to think you have been on this forum since 2007, the same year I joined and you have been very active here, as has Evang.Benincasa, and somehow you had no idea of his views?

Are you certain you didn't start this thread in an attempt to, (in your mind) expose him to what you don't agree with or understand, so you feel this method may make him get put on the defensive, or what is your true motive?

I don't really know you well, but have read some of your posts over the years and I really find it difficult to accept you truly had no idea of Evang.Benincasa views.

hmmmm...

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Then why this?



And now you are proving my point. Instead of answering a very easy question. You either do believe in full preterism or you dont. Answer any way you want. Yes or no. 2-3 paragraphs. A long study. A link you agree with.

Same thing I begged Dom for.

My avatar sums it up quite well.