will you know your loved ones in heaven

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

hmm, ok. I thought the prevalent belief was that this was a model for us to exercise while we were alive, and that that happened at baptism for us.

We are indeed resurrected in baptism. However, the body remains to be dealt with as well. In fact that's why I believe Revelation refers to a first and second resurrection. John 5:24-29 show salvation as a resurrection and then coming from graves as a second resurrection.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Where do you get that the body after the resurrection was a glorified body? It was flesh and blood, Just because he could appear behind closed doors does not make the body any different than before his death. He was God robed in flesh and God can do anything he wants. Like walk on water.
And I do not believe a spiritual body has flesh and blood. Hence it would not be a spirit.

A spiritual body is not a spirit any more than spiritual meat and drink in 1 Cor 10 are spirits.

The resurrection body could not die any more. So it was indeed different from before the cross.

Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Where do you get that the body after the resurrection was a glorified body? It was flesh and blood, Just because he could appear behind closed doors does not make the body any different than before his death. He was God robed in flesh and God can do anything he wants. Like walk on water.
And I do not believe a spiritual body has flesh and blood. Hence it would not be a spirit.

true. but i see that we also possess a spiritual body, right now.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

We are indeed resurrected in baptism. However, the body remains to be dealt with as well. In fact that's why I believe Revelation refers to a first and second resurrection. John 5:24-29 show salvation as a resurrection and then coming from graves as a second resurrection.

i'm reading the ref to "graves" there differently; as may be applied to the "walking dead." But i doubt that it is one-dimensional; and don't mean to imply here that something does not happen in the afterlife.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

true. but i see that we also possess a spiritual body, right now.

I cannot see the context of 1 Cor 15's spiritual body allowing for that, if we're talking about 1 Cor 15's spiritual body.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

A spiritual body is not a spirit any more than spiritual meat and drink in 1 Cor 10 are spirits.

well, they were being fed to spiritual bodies, though; as the passage states? The rest sounds like baptism again, to me. The point being that physical death is meaningless to God, perhaps.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i'm reading the ref to "graves" there differently; as may be applied to the "walking dead." But i doubt that it is one-dimensional; and don't mean to imply here that something does not happen in the afterlife.

The issue can only be understood by noting the context of the term SPIRITUAL and NATURAL in 1 Cor. Chapter 2 speaks of them in reference to believers. Some are natural and some are spiritual.

1Co 2:14-15 KJV But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (15) But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

And then chapter 10.

1Co 10:3-4 KJV And did all eat the same spiritual meat; (4) And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

So by the time we get to chapter 15, the same words were used in reference to the BODY as with the believers and drink and meats earlier in chapters 2 and 10.

In all cases, the elements in chapters 2 and 10 that were spiritual were very physical. Why break that continuity?

Chapter 15 begins with eye witnesses of Jesus' physical resurrection in context of what body we shall receive.

If there is currently a spiritual body we possess, then whatever it is it has to be something Paul knew in his day, for Paul's advancement in things of God was far beyond what ours is. Just read about his life! And yet Paul said the spiritual body he spoke about WAS NOT YET HIS. It was always a future thing to him.

So, what do we have now that Paul the Apostle did not have then?

The context of chapter 15 is what body do we rise with. The key verses is this:

1Co 15:35 KJV But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

And the context of that question started with Christ's visible and physical resurrection body. So visible, and emphasized as such, by the fact that over 500 people visibly saw Him with it!

How can we change that context to a "body" that is something different than the one with which He resurrected? There's no mystical element in this chapter. It's straightforward speech. (2 Cor 3:12).

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, they were being fed to spiritual bodies, though; as the passage states? The rest sounds like baptism again, to me. The point being that physical death is meaningless to God, perhaps.

The meat and drink in Moses' day was miraculously provided meat and drink. No more. It was as physical as another meat and drink they consumed. Their spirituality was their origin and means of existence. They were fed to physical bodies of Israelites in the wilderness. But they were spiritual because they had supernatural (not natural) origin. And they also served as types and shadows. But they were very physical nonetheless.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I cannot see the context of 1 Cor 15's spiritual body allowing for that, if we're talking about 1 Cor 15's spiritual body.

well, but Christ had to bodily die for our sins; which we do not have to do.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The meat and drink in Moses' day was miraculously provided meat and drink. No more. It was as physical as another meat and drink they consumed. Their spirituality was their origin and means of existence. They were fed to physical bodies of Israelites in the wilderness. But they were spiritual because they had supernatural (not natural) origin. And they also served as types and shadows. But they were very physical nonetheless.

good thoughts. i would not try to argue against a resurrection, understand, but against being ignorant of the seed we sow now, to our resurrected bodies.