Islamic Prayers at the Vatican - Page 8

Revelationist · #71 06-13-2014, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke

Very simple the Jews as a people group disagree with the Bible but the Jewish Holy book which they (and I along with most christians agree) have from God does not disagree with one of the things listed.

Jesus was the Son of God.

Jesus died on the cross.

Isaac was the child of promise to Abraham and Sarah.

The Jews as people are wrong in regards to the first two but the Old testament is not. Therefore the God of their Holy book is not contradicting.

On the other hand the book claimed to be from allah says the exact opposite as the Bible in these specific places among others. Therefore it is the god of islam and his book that is at odds with the God of the Bible not simply the thoughts or feelings of the people.

Do you see the difference?

The Jews have removed all but the first five books because the rest prophecy about the coming Mesiah... So no, not quit seeing the difference... Islam also uses the first five books, the Torah.

Luke · #72 06-13-2014, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelationist

The Jews have removed all but the first five books because the rest prophecy about the coming Mesiah... So no, not quit seeing the difference... Islam also uses the first five books, the Torah.

So do the first five. To be honest I had never heard that they did that. Still no where in the first five books does it ever contracdict any of the three points that i listed. However the islamist book does specificly contradict those points.

The difference is clear in that the Jews don't like the idea of Jesus therefore they as man ignore, remove and reject Him but the God of their Holy book does none of these things.

However the god of the islamist says the exact opposite of those three points in his book.

With the Jews it is humans contracdicting with the islamist it is their god contradicting.

If I were arguing that the Jews werer the same as the God of the Bible as you are that allah is the same as the God mof the Bible then you would be correct in saying that I a wrong or that my position is faulty. Even if the muslims as people were the ones saying the contradictory things when their book was not then you would be correct. However with the Jews it is man that has it wrong not God but with islam it is both the men and their god.

Revelationist · #73 06-13-2014, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke

So do the first five. To be honest I had never heard that they did that. Still no where in the first five books does it ever contracdict any of the three points that i listed. However the islamist book does specificly contradict those points.

The difference is clear in that the Jews don't like the idea of Jesus therefore they as man ignore, remove and reject Him but the God of their Holy book does none of these things.

However the god of the islamist says the exact opposite of those three points in his book.

With the Jews it is humans contracdicting with the islamist it is their god contradicting.

If I were arguing that the Jews werer the same as the God of the Bible as you are that allah is the same as the God mof the Bible then you would be correct in saying that I a wrong or that my position is faulty. Even if the muslims as people were the ones saying the contradictory things when their book was not then you would be correct. However with the Jews it is man that has it wrong not God but with islam it is both the men and their god.

They both use the Torah. Are you saying they are not the same Torah?

Luke · #74 06-13-2014, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelationist

They both use the Torah. Are you saying they are not the same Torah?

The islamist use the koran as their book. Are you say the Torah and the koran are the same book?

shazeep · #75 06-13-2014, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke

Very simple the Jews as a people group disagree with the Bible but the Jewish Holy book which they (and I along with most christians agree) have from God does not disagree with one of the things listed.

Jesus was the Son of God.

Jesus died on the cross.

Isaac was the child of promise to Abraham and Sarah.

The Jews as people are wrong in regards to the first two but the Old testament is not. Therefore the God of their Holy book is not contradicting.

On the other hand the book claimed to be from allah says the exact opposite as the Bible in these specific places among others. Therefore it is the god of islam and his book that is at odds with the God of the Bible not simply the thoughts or feelings of the people.

Do you see the difference?

so you condemn them from a legal standpoint, then.

Revelationist · #76 06-13-2014, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke

The islamist use the koran as their book. Are you say the Torah and the koran are the same book?

No, your not hearing what I'm saying.... They use the Torah, and like the Mormans were later given the Koran in addition to the Torah....

jfrog · #77 06-13-2014, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelationist

No, your not hearing what I'm saying.... They use the Torah, and like the Mormans were later given the Koran in addition to the Torah....

It's hard to say a religion which recognizes Jesus as a prophet could serve a totally different God than the one who sent Jesus...

Dordrecht · #78 06-14-2014, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

It's hard to say a religion which recognizes Jesus as a prophet could serve a totally different God than the one who sent Jesus...

Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified. They claim it was the plan of Jesus’ enemies to crucify him, but God saved him and raised him up to Him. And the likeness of Jesus was put over another man. Jesus’ enemies took this man and crucified him, thinking that he was Jesus. God has said:

...They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God.” They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)... (Quran, 4:157)

shazeep · #79 06-15-2014, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified. They claim it was the plan of Jesus’ enemies to crucify him, but God saved him and raised him up to Him. And the likeness of Jesus was put over another man. Jesus’ enemies took this man and crucified him, thinking that he was Jesus. God has said:

...They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God.” They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)... (Quran, 4:157)

"and He took our sins upon Himself, and died for us" paraphrased? but even if not, while that did initially bug me, i realized that if it did not inhibit a Muslim from following "Love your neighbor," which i observe that it did not seem to, then what is that to me?

there was a man that had a vineyard, and two sons...

jfrog · #80 06-15-2014, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified. They claim it was the plan of Jesus’ enemies to crucify him, but God saved him and raised him up to Him. And the likeness of Jesus was put over another man. Jesus’ enemies took this man and crucified him, thinking that he was Jesus. God has said:

...They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God.” They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)... (Quran, 4:157)

So? I didn't say they weren't wrong about things...