Universal Salvation

[Thad]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Now you are on my bad list, and I thought we had made up!

Great response, instead of any substantive refutation, just attack and throw out innuendos.

Crajak
those were CPs own statements when he was interivewed

have you seen his website ?

I cannot believe you agree with this ! what a shocker

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by PaPaDon

Yesterday during a discussion with CJ and Mfblume on another thread, I was invited to join in a discussion/debate on this issue, but declined the offer. However, after reading everything that has been posted here, your statement as noted above, represents the summation of my position regarding the matter. If it be true (Oh! BTW, it seems that I am always being compelled to use that small 3 lettered word in discussions of this nature), that the teachings of UR are scripturally correct, then the question must arise regarding the necessity for God's habitation of a human body, and the experience of its death, to secure the eternal salvation of those who would heed and obey His commandments. The misguided teachings of UR simply calls into question whether Christ Jesus died in vain!

It simply just does NOT seem logical to normal reasoning for God doing this, should it be, in the final analysis of all things, that every human being (as well as angelic) will enjoy eternal salvation! What, then, would it be that God was seeking to accomplish by compelling every entity that He has created to undergo the trials and tribulations of this life? In my humble, learned opinion, I am convinced (and this irrevocably so), that the heretical teachings which embrace universal salvation, is an assault upon the deity of our Lord, and His experience of death to secure my eternal salvation.

And THIS represents ALL that I choose to say about the matter, hence, no further post from me shall be forthcoming, regardless of the flames which I would expect from the likes of CJ and others who have unwittingly allowed themselves to be deceived into embracing this "doctrine of devils."

IF it is true and scripturally correct, I would expect there to be a scriptural discussion rather than the philosophical discussion appealing to our emotions as has been happening so far

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

This is the crux of the matter, "what on earth is God trying to accomplish". Why created a vast array of humanity for the "trials and tribulations of this life". Why continue to allow humans to be born if the majority will end up in torment?

What you are saying is Man did not choose to fall. God created them intentionally to fall, sin and evil to exist

Atheists will also question the existence of God based on the same idea that if He is a loving God (as though that is all He is) why allow such suffering now? Your own argument sort of works against you.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Thanks for your references.

I have considered this before in speaking of damnation and figured that this debt cannot be paid back, so the punishment is perpetual.

Right...in fact if we could pay our dept we would not need Jesus

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Why the assumption? Considering the hopelessness it could create at in fallen humanity. With man it is impossible, but Jesus did pay for something aka the sins of the world.

What scripture do you use to show Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world and if we take that literally then why isn't everyone saved right now? Why even speculate as to a future reconciliation? Why even preach the gospel? Why even say there are those that are lost and need to hear it? If Jesus paid for the sins of all the world in the way you are suggesting....

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

What you are saying is Man did not choose to fall. God created them intentionally to fall, sin and evil to exist

Atheists will also question the existence of God based on the same idea that if He is a loving God (as though that is all He is) why allow such suffering now? Your own argument sort of works against you.

I was simply posing the question: What is the purpose of the trials and tribulations of man on the earth? I have never suggested that He is loving only. Rather that His love and His severity serve the same purpose, similar to a parent's love and discipline for their child. And that would point toward the ultimate good of his (children) creation.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

What scripture do you use to show Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world and if we take that literally then why isn't everyone saved right now? Why even speculate as to a future reconciliation? Why even preach the gospel? Why even say there are those that are lost and need to hear it? If Jesus paid for the sins of all the world in the way you are suggesting....

Why should a child that has inherited the fortune of the parent be, "under masters until they reach maturity."

Scripture clearly declares that all have been reconciled to God, (I will bring forward the references in pursuit posts). Yet one has to enter into the strait gate to enter into the relationship, to enjoy His life. Yet it already belongs to all.

[Michael The Disciple]

The fate of those who commit sin is not eternal life.

14: And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If men do not believe in Jesus Christ they will PERISH. That means DIE.

That is the purpose of the Lake of Fire. That their souls may be destroyed.

28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matt. 10:28

Not as a place for purification.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by crakjak

I was simply posing the question: What is the purpose of the trials and tribulations of man on the earth? I have never suggested that He is loving only. Rather that His love and His severity serve the same purpose, similar to a parent's love and discipline for their child. And that would point toward the ultimate good of his (children) creation.

But he does not claim everyone as his Children.

8: That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Rom. 9:8

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

I was simply posing the question: What is the purpose of the trials and tribulations of man on the earth? I have never suggested that He is loving only. Rather that His love and His severity serve the same purpose, similar to a parent's love and discipline for their child. And that would point toward the ultimate good of his (children) creation.

But didn't you before suggest that? I am asking, if He is a loving God, why allow the suffering? Why allow an innocent child to be raped? See the questions can fly left and right when we go outside the word and muse philosophical