Are you an Apostolic?

[Luke]

Originally Posted by houston

Don't think he has witnessed anyone wax xenolalic. But, there's lot's of glossolalia.

I honestly do not know that I have ever personally heard anyone speak in a foreign language but they very well may have been for all I know. Still this does not do away with the fact that in the Bible the convincing sign of the baptism of the Holy Ghost was when the gentiles spoke in tongues. After that was heard there was no further argument! No where in the Bible can you find any other evidence that is so convincing as to make Jews accept gentiles and nowhere in the Bible can you find where it says tongues is no longer the convincing evidence.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:

1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.

Do you believe in the above statements? Yes or No?

I'll answer this quote with another quote answering point #4:

"Our earliest documents are the Gospels and the Pauline Epistles. In my opinion, ----- ----- made the point that needs to be made: this is about the one who gives authority to baptize. The baptism of John did not include John's pronouncement of his own name, but it was in his authority, and authority Jesus seems to have thought was from Israel's God. The baptism of Jesus by his disciples likely did, but not as a magical incantation, but rather citing the authority of the one who makes the baptism valid. Similarly, when we see "Father, Son, and Spirit" in Matthew and the Didache all that is being said is that the God who is Father, Son, and Spirit is the God who grants the authority of Christian baptism. Whether one says "Jesus," "Lord Jesus," "Lord Jesus Christ," "Father, Son, and Spirit," "Father, the Son Jesus Christ, and Spirit," or some other combination is quite secondary to whether or not the baptism is one done to initiate someone into the community of the God who is Father, Son, and Spirit, who is revealed in Jesus Christ."

I believe that basing one's salvation on "magic words" spoken from a 3rd party is error! I prefer "Lord Jesus Christ", but I don't send folks to Hell that weren't baptized with the exact same words.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Luke

I honestly do not know that I have ever personally heard anyone speak in a foreign language but they very well may have been for all I know. Still this does not do away with the fact that in the Bible the convincing sign of the baptism of the Holy Ghost was when the gentiles spoke in tongues. After that was heard there was no further argument! No where in the Bible can you find any other evidence that is so convincing as to make Jews accept Gentiles and nowhere in the Bible can you find where it says tongues is no longer the convincing evidence.

[seekerman]

Please, lets just be honest folks. The NT tongue outpouring and modern day pentecostal practices (both oneness and trinitarian) aren't close to being the same.

Where did anyone in the New Testament Church go to an 'old fashioned altar' to beg and seek to 'get' the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues?

It's not there.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Please, lets just be honest folks. The NT tongue outpouring and modern day pentecostal practices (both oneness and trinitarian) aren't close to being the same.

Where did anyone in the New Testament Church go to an 'old fashioned altar' to beg and seek to 'get' the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues?

It's not there.

I mean, really. Thank you. Current day Apostles don't generally become martyrs, either. I do not need Scripture to witness something that no longer occurs, nor do I expect It to do this. The combining of the Apostles and other NT examples of xenoglossy with today's Apostolic prerequisite of glossololia for the infilling of the Holy Spirit has no basis in Scripture.

That is the nice way to put it; the not-so-nice way is that it is satanic, exclusionary, and can be judged by its fruit.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Please, lets just be honest folks. The NT tongue outpouring and modern day pentecostal practices (both oneness and trinitarian) aren't close to being the same.

Where did anyone in the New Testament Church go to an 'old fashioned altar' to beg and seek to 'get' the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues?

It's not there.

Didn't Charles Finney start the altar call? Just because a group of people decided to take matters into their own hands by getting people to beg for the Gift, which takes longer, doesn't change scripture.

What difference does anything a man changes have to do with what the Word is saying? He might have his own view and doctrine, but it doesn't change what the Word said from the beginning.

There is still more evidence of speaking in tongues than receiving it any other way.

Did you ever think that you are, largely, speaking to people who have spoken in tongues? And did those who have spoken in tongues realize how ridiculous you sound saying that is not the evidence? LOL!

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Didn't Charles Finney start the altar call? Just because a group of people decided to take matters into their own hands by getting people to beg for the Gift, which takes longer, doesn't change scripture.

What difference does anything a man changes have to do with what the Word is saying? He might have his own view and doctrine, but it doesn't change what the Word said from the beginning.

There is still more evidence of speaking in tongues than receiving it any other way.

Did you ever think that you are, largely, speaking to people who have spoken in tongues? And did those who have spoken in tongues realize how ridiculous you sound saying that is not the evidence? LOL!

I'm not sure who started the altar call, I just don't find such behavior taught in the NT Church.

Shouldn't the Church be striving to emulate the early church, especially when it comes to tongues? Why not simply follow the bible on this? Going to an 'altar' and pleading and begging, night after night, simply isn't an example of New Testament events of the receiving of tongues. The Borat-like tongue seeking behavior which is the norm in most pentecostal churches is both embarrassing and futile, in my opinion.

I'm certainly not arguing against tongues, I speak in tongues daily and count the experience as a very important part of daily Christian living.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I'm not sure who started the altar call, I just don't find such behavior taught in the NT Church.

I agree.

Shouldn't the Church be striving to emulate the early church, especially when it comes to tongues? Why not simply follow the bible on this? Going to an 'altar' and pleading and begging, night after night, simply isn't an example of New Testament events of the receiving of tongues. The Borat-like tongue seeking behavior which is the norm in most pentecostal churches is both embarrassing and futile, in my opinion.

That doesn't mean everyone, always, does it that way. And, really, if truth is taught, what difference does it make if they are in their pew or coming to the front? God obviously doesn't care, evidenced by seeing lots of people receive the Holy Ghost both ways, and some at home. My husband received the Holy Ghost sitting in his pew.

All through the years I've been in the middle of all the gifts in operation - healing, prophecy, tongues, etc. We are the NT church. You can see a flawed people in the Epistles, but God kept working, because of their faith. That's the most important thing - faith.

All of this other argument is just a distraction and petty. Who really cares? Let's just live for God and be decent and good.

I'm certainly not arguing against tongues, I speak in tongues daily and count the experience as a very important part of daily Christian living.

Well, being that you do speak in tongues, you never could argue against it.

[Pressing-On]

The only thing that really upsets me is the preaching of standards, while also saying it is NOT a "heaven or hell" issue - YET - not using anyone who doesn't follow OR treating them like a red-headed step-child. Now that right there is a huge problem if there ever was one. And, frankly, that makes me angry.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Please, lets just be honest folks. The NT tongue outpouring and modern day pentecostal practices (both oneness and trinitarian) aren't close to being the same.

Where did anyone in the New Testament Church go to an 'old fashioned altar' to beg and seek to 'get' the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues?

It's not there.

I'm going share the pivotal moment when I knew for certain that the UPCI was not for me and that I did NOT share a faith with them.

I was in sitting in my regular spot on a comfy pew in my very large home church when a visiting Evangelist had a young man who had been 'seeking' the HG come up on the platform and crawl around on his knees in front of the entire congregation begging God for the HG. On this day and on the same platform sat my pastor, the assistant pastor and maybe even a third preacher. This was supposedly done because 'today is your day' but even after this he did not speak in tongues.

Even after seeing some of the rough treatment of the men at the altar with shaking then and screaming into their ears, etc. I was horrified by this... and NO ONE made any attempt to stop it although the associate pastor later admitted to my husband that he did not think it was right.

This Evangelist guy was nuts anyway, walking on the backs of pews in his socks and once literally spiting his dentures over the pulpit... but geez there have to be some kind of limits and I draw the line at public humiliation in the name of God by those in authority in the church.

I realized then that all the all the crying, begging, weeping, wailing, shaking, sweating, 'praying down the saints', etc. was not healthy worship and does not fit the mold of 'decently and in order' and I just can not fathom it being God's desire for his people. If this is what it takes for some people to speak in tongues... well... I just don't know what to think about that.