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Originally Posted by seekerman
I was oneness pentecostal for about 40 years and I never remember, other than general statements about the blood such as you've made, the blood being taught as the redemptive element for mankind. Almost always the message was tongues, correct baptism and standards. I never once heard a in depth study of the blood of the Lamb of God or the cross and the results of the cross and the blood of the Lamb of God and how it related to redemption.
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Respectfully Seekerman, your questions seem to have less to do with learning anything and more to do with both distancing yourself further from Oneness Pentecostalism into the arms of whatever belief structure you now align yourself to, and trying to discredit the beliefs of others.
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Redemption is foreign to most oneness pentecostals for in oneness pentecostalism the focus isn't the cross or the Lamb which is the true basis for redemption.
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This is an absolute misunderstanding at the very least and a total misrepresentation at the most. Oneness Pentecostals know that without the Blood of Jesus, even the death of Jesus on the cross, then repentance, baptism, the infilling of the Holy Spirit, the Lords Supper, or any other doctrine Christians hold would be pointless.
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Fudge's book "Christianity Without The Cross" is a very accurate description of the message of oneness pentecostalism and it's dismissal to a much lessor position the blood of the Lamb of God, secondary to tongues-baptism-standards.
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And herein is the truth behind your whole dialogue this far. You have set out to try and chip away at tongues, baptism, and standards. You will reject anything which seems to back up any of these, and you will try to use vague questions to receive specific answers.
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Another example would be Bernard's books, "The New Birth" and "The Oneness of God" which is indicative of the importance of what the gospel message is within oneness pentecostalism. As I understand it, both books are required reading for those seeking licensing by the UPC but, revealingly, Bernard didn't place the same level of importance on the cross and the blood of the Lamb of God or something would have been written on the doctrine and made a part of required reading for UPC ministers.
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It is interesting that you give us a review of two books and what you feel was left out of them when you could just as easily write your own with a focus on what you feel should be given attention.
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The implicit message of the oneness pentecostal gospel is that the blood of the Lamb of God applied/imputed unto a person is actually worthless in and of itself.
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This is completely laughable. You seem to put forward the idea that because a person believes that one must repent, be baptized in the name of Jesus, and receive the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives them the utterance that somehow this means that this person does not believe that the blood of Jesus Christ is not enough to save. However I know of very few Christian Faiths which put forth the idea much less the doctrine that since the Blood of Jesus was shed for the forgiveness of sins that nothing is required of the believer. Remember that the Bible clearly stated that one must have faith through grace and that the faith is a gift from God. Grace alone does nothing for the sinner without a faith in the grace which was given.
Therefore I ask you: Do you believe that the Blood of Jesus is sufficient for the saving of a sinner. IF so, then why would the person need to have faith, or repent. Repentance is therefore just as must a work for salvation as would baptism, or receiving the Holy Spirit, or standards, or any other doctrine which you choose to knock because you no longer believe it.
What I see is a double standard. How can anyone take you seriously?
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One should focus on tongues-baptism-standards instead of the blood of the Lamb of God is the implicit or explicit gospel. That's why the study of redemption by blood of the Lamb of God is very rare within oneness pentecostalism.
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Until you address the WORKS of your Salvation you really should leave the Oneness Pentecostals alone to theirs.
IMHO
Pastor Ramone Wooddell
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