That Old King James

[BroJoe]

I don't think of saved in a past tense. I think of it as a progressive salvation. I do believe it is possible to fall out of grace.The once saved always saved doctrine I view is incorrect.

Acts 2:38, One God, Holiness.

[Nitehawk013]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Can't get enough of this love baby.....



At least you didn't say Clarence Carter. LOL

Good call. "Strokin" may be a bit over the line. LOL.

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I asked you a question, which you ignored... have you ever sang a song written by someone obviously living in sin, i.e. Hank Williams as in I Saw the Light?

We can realize that the spirit of God can move in someone's life who may not be completely surrendered to God in their lifestyle. But who am I to judge the condition of people's heart? Who are YOU to judge Scotty's heart? Who am I to judge you?

And I don't mean to come across as judgmental in any way. That was not my intent. My intent was just to have you think a little bit about all the music, and hymns that we sing in our congregations... do you know the heart of each and every songwriter who wrote them? Do you know the heart of each and every one that sings a song?

Just sayin.... that this mentality will take you down a road where you might only have listen to your own singing.... I dunno.....

And PEACE Bro. I appreciate your heart for God, and your love for the truth. I really do. Just thought I would open this mindset up a little bit for you....

You used the word ENFORCE... so I think you should be more careful with your words since you think I'm being so slack with mine.

I despise the song "I saw the Light"... because in most circles it's not considered a sacred song, but a country song. I've never heard it sung in a church, but only in secular settings by folks trying to dangle a religious bone in front of their audience.

Actually, I'm very careful, though of course not perfect in my music selection. I am not one that believes that folks like Rambo, Gaither, etc are lost because they are not Acts 2:38. I do believe they are in great error, and I have no idea how much error is too much error, as I have said on this forum before. But even with sacred music, there are many songs I will not sing, play, or allow in services that I have responsibility over when the words/writing aren't supported by Scripture or are not conducive to worship.

Next... anytime a musician within the sacred music area has crossed over to even do one secular song, i.e., Sonja Isaacs, I then will no longer listen to, or use any of that musician's work. Again, as you have done before, you make assumptions that I have not thought my belief through to it's conclusion, and that somehow you are bringing some great revelation of hypocrisy on my part, but I work deligently as the Scriptures teach to make sure that my values or consistent and balanced.

Also... you said I don't know Scotty's heart. This isn't a heart matter to be honest. His actions are enough to go on. I do not subscribe that since we do not know someone's heart, then we shouldn't judge. That's in total opposition to what the Word teaches. In fact, the Scripture teaches that we can know the heart, by the words, actions, etc that proceed forth. The Word does say that man looks on the outward and God on the heart... but that Scripture is being misquoted when people make it sound like God looks ONLY on the heart.

When that Scripture is properly interpreted in context, it is saying that God takes the heart into the equation in addition to the outward.

This young man sings here in the honky tonks in Nashville when here in town. I've seen it on the news. This young man won a secular music program.... and is recording secular music... and this very video was from the mother church of all that filth.... the Grand Ole Opry, right here in my backyard. It's obvious to know that he's heavily involved in secular music... therefore.... it's apples and oranges of comparing him to folks who are in the Sacred Music industry that I differ on doctrine with.

There is a huge difference between being a part of secular music industry and my wishing that girl from the Hoppers would wipe some of the war paint off her face, or the guys from gospel music would stop trying to look like prissy little girls with their colored hair, jewelry, and swishy walks. It's apples and oranges.... my feelings about make-up, jewelry, etc are personal convictions... but the teachings I live by with Secular music is way deeper than a conviction.

[Bro. Robbins]

and let me just add... when I do learn things... and I do with as many folks as I know in the Gospel music industry, and because of living in Nashville.... when I do learn things about the lives of folks in that industry, if it doesn't line up to the word, I then no longer use their music, listen to them, etc. For example, Mark Lowry. There are facts that I know... therefore, I wouldn't go as far as my front porch to even listen to him read the Nashville phone book... and I will not use any of the music he has written.

Ann Downing.... When I found out that she was ministering music in some pro gay churches.... boom, out the door. Not gonna use any of her stuff, nor songs she writes.

So, though not perfect, I work very hard at being consistent. Sister/Brother, I believe separation is a command. The early church has hurt us in how dependent it has made us on the world. We unfortunately are not able to be as separated as I believe God would have us, but I do believe we should strive to be different in as many ways as possible and really be deligent about it... and I strive for that.

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

With all due respect, I don't put Secular/Sacred Music in the Romans 14 category. I would put length of shirt sleeve... wearing a watch... in that category... but the Scripture is pretty clear in it's teaching on music. Maybe not as clear as baptism, or repentance for sure... but much clearer than the items that would fall in Romans 14 column.

sounds like your caught up in your legalism and when people dont come up to your pedastool of self rightousness, you come out with the comment i see their fruit, yea 5 minutes of fruit and you labeled the person. I bet if we got a 5 minute vbideo on your worst day many here could tag the same label on you as you have the kid... just sayin..

sorta reminds me of the pharasee in the synagogue, hey Lord Im glad im not like this Guy, im glad i fast, im glad i only listen to southern gospel music written before 1950's and none of this secular stuff like this tax collector over there.

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by acerrak

sounds like your caught up in your legalism and when people dont come up to your pedastool of self rightousness, you come out with the comment i see their fruit, yea 5 minutes of fruit and you labeled the person. I bet if we got a 5 minute vbideo on your worst day many here could tag the same label on you as you have the kid... just sayin..

sorta reminds me of the pharasee in the synagogue, hey Lord Im glad im not like this Guy, im glad i fast, im glad i only listen to southern gospel music written before 1950's and none of this secular stuff like this tax collector over there.

And we see here that you enjoy making assumptions instead of asking questions.... you obviously didn't read the entire thread... not that I'm surprised. I didn't base it off 5 minutes. I based it off much of what I know about Scotty from living here in Nashville (he's here a ton for music stuff), plus the tons of stuff about him in the media.

Yes, he claims to be a Christian... but he is also HEAVILY involved in secular music. I believe, that one cannot be involved in the secular music industry and be right with God. That's just my belief and I stand by it.

Lastly, appreciate the legalism label again... doesnt' bother me really. But you should probably actually use it right. Legalism is when one believes there are things they HAVE TO DO to earn salvation. I do not believe one can ever earn Righteousness.

This issue is about sin. Music was never ever intended by God for any other purpose, according to the examples in Scripture, for entertainment. Music is only to be used in Worship. To me... this is the equivalent of someone that is well known in the secular world trying to get up and make fun of speaking in tongues or shouting.... it's taking the things that are holy and making them common, and defiling them. That's what is done when those from the secular music world try to crossover and do sacred music.

It's the equivalent of Nadab and Abihu's offering of strange fire before the Lord. And we know what happened to them. GOD IS AS CONCERNED WITH THE METHODS AS HE IS THE OUTCOME.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

and let me just add... when I do learn things... and I do with as many folks as I know in the Gospel music industry, and because of living in Nashville.... when I do learn things about the lives of folks in that industry, if it doesn't line up to the word, I then no longer use their music, listen to them, etc. For example, Mark Lowry. There are facts that I know... therefore, I wouldn't go as far as my front porch to even listen to him read the Nashville phone book... and I will not use any of the music he has written.

Ann Downing.... When I found out that she was ministering music in some pro gay churches.... boom, out the door. Not gonna use any of her stuff, nor songs she writes.

So, though not perfect, I work very hard at being consistent. Sister/Brother, I believe separation is a command. The early church has hurt us in how dependent it has made us on the world. We unfortunately are not able to be as separated as I believe God would have us, but I do believe we should strive to be different in as many ways as possible and really be deligent about it... and I strive for that.

This is comical. First, you have yet to show any relevant passage that says anything like what you have proposed here. Second, the passage about God looking on the heart...nice way to throw in he doesn't look only at the heart. Nonsense, that is exactly what it is saying. And the biggest problem you have is the Pharisees that have cleaned up well and inside are full of dead men's bones peddling you Christian songs, and you will never even know it.

Yours is exactly the attitude that has made Christianity irrelevant to our society.

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

And we see here that you enjoy making assumptions instead of asking questions.... you obviously didn't read the entire thread... not that I'm surprised. I didn't base it off 5 minutes. I based it off much of what I know about Scotty from living here in Nashville (he's here a ton for music stuff), plus the tons of stuff about him in the media.

Yes, he claims to be a Christian... but he is also HEAVILY involved in secular music. I believe, that one cannot be involved in the secular music industry and be right with God. That's just my belief and I stand by it.

Lastly, appreciate the legalism label again... doesnt' bother me really. But you should probably actually use it right. Legalism is when one believes there are things they HAVE TO DO to earn salvation. I do not believe one can ever earn Righteousness.

This issue is about sin. Music was never ever intended by God for any other purpose, according to the examples in Scripture, for entertainment. Music is only to be used in Worship. To me... this is the equivalent of someone that is well known in the secular world trying to get up and make fun of speaking in tongues or shouting.... it's taking the things that are holy and making them common, and defiling them. That's what is done when those from the secular music world try to crossover and do sacred music.

It's the equivalent of Nadab and Abihu's offering of strange fire before the Lord. And we know what happened to them. GOD IS AS CONCERNED WITH THE METHODS AS HE IS THE OUTCOME.

No i didnt have to read it all I read enough to make a comment, obvious it must have pricked you.

No i do not consider music to be strange fire like nadab and abihu's offering. that is terrible hermenuetics, church of christ use the same thing to try and justify there stance on no musial instruments in the sanctuary.

speaking is no different than singing, AND i know every word that comes out of your mouth isnt praising the Lord.

there is some secular music you could easily put Jesus in even though the words Jesus Lord christ or God are never used.

To me... this is the equivalent of someone that is well known in the secular world trying to get up and make fun of speaking in tongues or shouting....

thats just your personal belief stop trying to force your personal standard on other people.


while i agree someone making fun of tounges is wrong and is on the verge of blasphemous in my eyes, i never ever equate secular music to such a thing.


while sin is sin, what a person singing about isnt necasserily sin, and its just ignorant to think such a thing. whil ethere is music that is sinful cause of the content and nature of the song, not all secular music is like that....

[Bro. Robbins]

Originally Posted by acerrak

No i didnt have to read it all I read enough to make a comment, obvious it must have pricked you.

No i do not consider music to be strange fire like nadab and abihu's offering. that is terrible hermenuetics, church of christ use the same thing to try and justify there stance on no musial instruments in the sanctuary.

speaking is no different than singing, AND i know every word that comes out of your mouth isnt praising the Lord.

there is some secular music you could easily put Jesus in even though the words Jesus Lord christ or God are never used.




thats just your personal belief stop trying to force your personal standard on other people.


while i agree someone making fun of tounges is wrong and is on the verge of blasphemous in my eyes, i never ever equate secular music to such a thing.


while sin is sin, what a person singing about isnt necasserily sin, and its just ignorant to think such a thing. whil ethere is music that is sinful cause of the content and nature of the song, not all secular music is like that....

stating my opinion isn't FORCING my beliefs on anyone. FORCE from the dictionary on my desk is defined as... "to bring about or compel by using strength or threat of consequence".... this is an internet forum of opinions and ideas... I haven't FORCED my beliefs on anyone... don't have the ability to.

Once again... when someone with a conservative and strict view states their opinion... they are legalists and "forcing" their convictions on others.... when all they are doing is stating their opinions.

But if someone doesn't believe in formal localized church, has an issue with pastors, has an issue with the UPC, ALJC, or any other denom... doesn't believe in tongues as initial evidence, doesn't believe in lifestyle holiness...etc, etc, etc... they aren't forcing anything on anyone....they are just stating their opinions.

LOL... now that is hilarious. Someone please tell me how my stating of my beliefs and opinions on the issue is me "FORCING" my beliefs on someone? Either show me how, or the above poster owes me an apology for making an accusation that is just not true, unfounded and a false witness.

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Bro. Robbins

stating my opinion isn't FORCING my beliefs on anyone. FORCE from the dictionary on my desk is defined as... "to bring about or compel by using strength or threat of consequence".... this is an internet forum of opinions and ideas... I haven't FORCED my beliefs on anyone... don't have the ability to.

Once again... when someone with a conservative and strict view states their opinion... they are legalists and "forcing" their convictions on others.... when all they are doing is stating their opinions.

But if someone doesn't believe in formal localized church, has an issue with pastors, has an issue with the UPC, ALJC, or any other denom... doesn't believe in tongues as initial evidence, doesn't believe in lifestyle holiness...etc, etc, etc... they aren't forcing anything on anyone....they are just stating their opinions.

LOL... now that is hilarious. Someone please tell me how my stating of my beliefs and opinions on the issue is me "FORCING" my beliefs on someone? Either show me how, or the above poster owes me an apology for making an accusation that is just not true, unfounded and a false witness.

when you judge your forcing your beliefs on some one cause there not up to your standards. This that ye ole measuring stick of legalism