Trying to Rescue Another from HMH Doctrine

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Yeah, I know, it took me a while to figure him out! I went round and round with him a couple of times before I figured out we were saying the same thing!

Ha, sorry; yes, you're right. I'm s'posed to be working, not here, so my "you's" get confused, lol.

[KeptByTheWord]

I'm thankful that you are able to witness to this lady Deacon B, and hopefully the blinders will come off her eyes, to be able to see the doctrine of uncut hair being doctrine that is unbiblical.

Will pray that the Lord will continue to open her eyes to the truth that Jesus is the only image we must conform to.

Eply is only posting here for pure enjoyment, and to stir this thread up... although he certainly does believe what he is saying... even though scripture never once says... a woman is going to hell for having bobbed hair....

[houston]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

I mean, how hard is that? Where does hair come in here?
And don't imagine that if you are so deluded about
a simple thing like hair, or pants, that you can tell
anyone about Christ. Thank God that at least
your churches are dying in droves.

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Hair is a simple issue? Simple to who, you? What is simple is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus being the finished work of salvation. The hair issue in OP churches is a convoluted, complex and intricate rule that is foisted upon women to make life very difficult and frustrating. The countless ours of haircare and dealing with split ends and working on intricate hairstyles and putting it up and dealing with all that hair on hot, humid days and dealing with hair loss and hair that doesn't grow luxurious and long etc.

The pants issue is simple? Really? Women having to always wear dresses in every condition and circumstance is easy? Women trying to play sports in a skirt, water ski in a skirt, do yard work in a skirt, horseback ride, snow ski, hike, jog, play volleyball in a skirt is simple? How about on bitterly cold days? It's so simple for women to have to find ways to keep their legs warm and comfortable some other way than to wear long johns and jeans or thermal pants or some other less complicated way? Really?

I'm gonna run the risk of being wrong here, but, are you male or female? If I was a betting man I'd guess male. But I could be wrong, and it could be that you really believe all of these rules about hair and clothing is the way to a simple life. But from my observation having grown up with three sisters and a mother, OP standards and the culture that works very hard to preserve them was much more difficult for the females in my life than the simple truth that Jesus loves women for what He finds in their heart rather than for what wear or don't wear, what they do or don't do with their hair.

Grace is simple. Legalism? Not so much.

I think that he is saying, if you are into the clothesline/hmh doctrine, you CAN'T be a Christian, and he is glad that old time pentecostal churches are dying!

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

And even more importantly there is no other supportive passages outside of I Cor. 11 that even hint that women never cutting their hair was/is a New Testament doctrine or a prerequisite for heaven.

That is what I thought, brother.

Originally Posted by deacon blues

But that doesn't matter either. What matters is the preservation of the sacred cow, the Apostolic Identity subculture, the acceptance among preacher friends and colleagues as well as family, invitations to preach the camps and the conferences and remaining in the good graces of the organization, denomination, network, etc.

Very good post Deacon Blues. Although what you posted does not need clarifying, I would just like to add my thoughts here.

Now we are getting into the crux of the matter.

1. Preservation of the sacred cow.

Just another idolatrous golden calf here? Holy Magic Hair is idolatry. Now if a woman just believes in her heart that she should never cut her hair and actually want it to be uncut, then I say fine for them. I love my sisters in the Lord just the same. Equating long hair with salvation seems to negate the blood of Christ applied to our souls.

But for the "clergy" to impose it on all women and tell them that God does not hear prayers because of cut hair...well Elder Epley is going to have to give me scripture to prove that.

2. Apostolic Identity Subculture.

Yeah. All clubs have their signature logo in dress or some other identifying features. I just do not believe that our salvation depends on which club we belong to. Christ did not die for one elite group...but for all that we all may obtain salvation through His shed blood. Does God need any identifying marks other than the spot of that precious blood that Christ shed for us applied to our souls?

3. The acceptance among preacher friend and colleagues.

Wow. What a selfish motive to teach uncut hair on women. Make a woman have to mess with very very long hair everyday so the preacher can glory through acceptance from his friends?

4. Invitations to preach the camps and the conferences.

If a preacher cannot stand on his own merits of preaching and his own standards and spirituality, but has to keep the women in his church in line in order to receive camp and conference invitations, then I would say that he is in pretty sad shape and is not fit to lead people.

5. Remaining in the good graces of the organization.

This is one reason why I love Jesus so much. He did not preach anything that would try to keep Him in the good graces of the High Priests, Pharisees and Scribes. His only concern was for the people who were led astray from God by the "organization" through meaningless impositions from the "clergy". He has a lot to say about this in Matthew 23.

Jesus truly wants people to be saved.

[Steve Epley]

A woman was not permitted to pray or prophecy in a NT assembly with her head uncovered! Uncut hair is the covering. NO Church of God has the custom of women worshipping with cut hair. See 1 Cor. 11. Very plain and simple to me. A teacher who teaches women can worship in a NT assembly with cut hair is a false teacher and will be lost.

[MawMaw]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Recently I received a private message on Facebook from a woman from my childhood who said looking at my FB she could tell we had no standards. She asked why people have changed from the way we were raised. I responded respectfully that I was not in the org that we were raised in and that we didn't embrace the traditional standards that we were taught primarily because either they weren't scriptural or that they were misinterpretations of scripture. I told her that in many cases the standards we were taught were also communicated to us as requirements for salvation. I told her the Bible teaches that Jesus is our salvation and trusting in Him is all we need.

She wrote back and said she had "trouble with cutting her hair" and that someone told her "the angels won't be around you anymore". I set the record straight, and told her that the Bible teaches no such thing. I told her that Jesus would never let strands of protein to come between Him and her. We wouldn't do that with our own children, how much more God?

Pray for this woman. I want to see her discover the beauty of God's grace and enjoy His acceptance rather than guilt and condemnation from pretenders.

I'll pray that she talks to her Pastor and not get her spiritual advice from Facebook.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Lacey

I'll pray that she talks to her Pastor and not get her spiritual advice from Facebook.

Maybe her pastor is part of the problem.

[MawMaw]

Originally Posted by houston

Maybe her pastor is part of the problem.

I doubt that very seriously.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Lacey

I'll pray that she talks to her Pastor and not get her spiritual advice from Facebook.

Wise advise. These folks don't have any affection or respect for Apostolic pastors most don't even go to an Apostolic church.

[Steve Epley]

Most of these folks have utter contempt for the Apostolic church so don't expect to find any encouragment toward truth.
For example tell us where you go to church?