Stunning Sermon On The Great Tribulation

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by shag

Yeah just curious the difference to you.

First off, I would say the prophecy about the destruction of the temple was given before Jesus started talking about the end of the world. Now, Jesus did associate some things with the destruction of the temple. Things like earthquakes, false prophets, false Christs believers' persecution, nations and kingdoms rising against themselves.

However, we all know that up till today, we still have things occurring (earthquakes, false prophets, false Christs believers' persecution, nations and kingdoms rising against themselves). Thus I see Jesus prophecies in Matt 24, Mark 13, Luke 12, Luke 17, and Luke 21 as dynamic and not only linear.

I say dynamic because some of these events are gonna continue till Jesus appears visibly. Like persecution, nations fighting themselves, etc. These have started long ago and will continue till he comes.

If we look at Matt 24, Luke 21, etc as linear only, then we shouldn't be having false prophets, persecution, nations fighting today.

Now, some of the events he gave are definite events. For instance, the leading away into captivity of Israel. That is a specific event. That definitely occurred.

That is not a generic event like the persecutions, nations fighting.

Other specific events include:
The times of the gentiles being fulfilled (Luke 21:24, cross ref Rom 11:25)
All the earth seeing the Son of man VISIBLY (Matt 24:30)

So if some of the specific events have not occurred, then we can't say all of Matt 24 is past.

Luke 21
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.


Jesus said "when we see these things..." Yes, the disciples saw persecutions, they saw the temple destroyed. But did they see the times of the gentiles being fulfilled??

They saw the times of the gentiles starting (Acts 10), but not the finishing of the gentiles.

Paul even gives us a clue as to the time of the gentiles being fulfilled.

Rom11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Notice, Jesus said Jerusalem is trodden down until gentile time is done with. Paul says Israel's blindness is removed when gentile time is done with. Thus, Jerusalem' blindness is removed and no longer trodden under when the gentile time is done with.

Thus, IMO, the generation that see the gentile time fulfilled, the generation that sees Israel's blindness removed will not pass away till ALL these things are fulfilled.

Again, I agree the disciples saw some of the events, but they obviously did not see ALL the events. We know (from hind sight) today the events that have happened and the ones that have not yet happened.

Notice that even the disciples thought that Israel would be restored in their time.

Acts 1
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

If you notice, the question was not IF the kingdom will be restored, but rather WHEN it will be restored to Israel. So there's no doubt that the kingdom will be restored to Israel.

The question then is WHEN?

But look at Jesus' answer:
It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power

IOW, "you don't need to know the time when the kingdom will be restored to Israel. Go be my witnesses..."

But the generation that sees Israel restored will see the times of the gentiles fulfilled.

I don't claim to be an expert, but this is where I stand right now...

Originally Posted by shag

And hey now.. dontcha know U cant be a pre trib or mid trib rapture proponet, cause if Jesus destroys death at the 2nd coming, how r folks gonna die in a tribulation at all? J/K!

I don't get it... could you please elaborate?

[Michael The Disciple]

People need to be warned that THEY might be the ones in the great tribulation. Jesus said it would be affliction greater than ANY that took place before it or would EVER happen again. And yet we act many times like we are really struggling TODAY.

What happens when the cities of the nations are evaporated? When all nations hate you for Jesus sake? When we cannot even buy and sell without renouncing Christ and worshipping the beast?

Hadn't we better consider these things?

[UnTraditional]

Whether He comes back for the Church before the tribulation, in the middle, or immediately after the tribulation, if we would be spiritually ready to live for Him regardless and be led of His Spirit, it would not be a matter of timing, but a matter of perseverance. I agree that we must be ready, but if we are to be ready for His coming as if it were 5 minutes from now, we will be ready if it were not to come for another 7 years as well.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

Whether He comes back for the Church before the tribulation, in the middle, or immediately after the tribulation, if we would be spiritually ready to live for Him regardless and be led of His Spirit, it would not be a matter of timing, but a matter of perseverance. I agree that we must be ready, but if we are to be ready for His coming as if it were 5 minutes from now, we will be ready if it were not to come for another 7 years as well.

Apparentley it must matter. There is plenty of teaching about it. That makes it important just like any other teaching of the Apostles.

[TJJJ]

If you are a preterist then you do not have to worry about it.

[houston]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

If you are a preterist then you do not have to worry about it.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

Whether He comes back for the Church before the tribulation, in the middle, or immediately after the tribulation, if we would be spiritually ready to live for Him regardless and be led of His Spirit, it would not be a matter of timing, but a matter of perseverance. I agree that we must be ready, but if we are to be ready for His coming as if it were 5 minutes from now, we will be ready if it were not to come for another 7 years as well.

What tribulation?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by seekerman

What tribulation?

And this mindset is why we need the wake up call. We are used to having food and drink for ourselves and family and friends. Used to a secure place to live and freedom to pretty much do as we please.

Many American "Christians" will be offended at whats coming. Many at ease Christians in all nations will turn from Christ to save their lives.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended , and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. Matt. 24:9-10

Until then most will be saying, "what tribulation"?

[Truthseeker]

"Then shall they deliver YOU up". I don't understand how that can applied to us when he said it was going to happen to the ones he was speaking of.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

"Then shall they deliver YOU up". I don't understand how that can applied to us when he said it was going to happen to the ones he was speaking of.

But this is still happening today...not here in America, but definitely a lot in China. So would this scripture not apply today then?