IF God is Love...

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Arphaxad

He chose a tax collector also, and a zealot.

HE chose twelve and said one was a devil!

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That's not a command

The word means to "leave" or "Go away from"...
Mat 19:29 And whoever has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
The Apostles did that when they became Missionaries for Jesus, not just traveling with him but going out and preaching to other people

I didn't say it was a command.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Timmy

In fact, you must love your family so much less than you love God, you may have to forsake them. And if you do, you will be rewarded. Or is that hyperbole, too?

So, in general, when you have two contradicting scriptures, how do you, Prax, decide which one to call hyperbole?

Originally Posted by Timmy

I didn't say it was a command.

First of all I don't see how you merge two scriptures together to get you must have your family and if so you may have to forsake them,

Second you didn't address the point I raised about what it means to leave

Third, they aren't contradictory.

Hyperbole is self defined.

What makes you think

Mat 19:29 And whoever has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

Is a hyperbole since it's not putting a demand, thus my point about a command, on people?

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

First of all I don't see how you merge two scriptures together to get you must have your family and if so you may have to forsake them,

You don't see how loving your family less than you love God may be a factor in having to leave (forsake) them? Never mind, then.

Second you didn't address the point I raised about what it means to leave

OK, it can mean leave. Fine.

Third, they aren't contradictory.

The contradiction is was alluding to is the same one you did. That you are told to hate your family, and yet you must love them. You said hate must be hyperbole. I asked how you decide which of two contradicting scriptures is hyperbole. You haven't answered that.

Hyperbole is self defined.

What?

What makes you think

Mat 19:29 And whoever has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

Is a hyperbole since it's not putting a demand, thus my point about a command, on people?

I didn't say it was hyperbole. And all I said was you may have to forsake your family, and if you did, you would be rewarded.

Also consider Matthew 10:34-37:

34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Edit: Oh, I said you may have to forsake your family. That's why you thought I thought it was a command. Not exactly. I had in mind a situation where you are given a choice: it's either Jesus or your family. Maybe they are unbelievers and they demand that you forsake your faith, or something. In a situation like that, would it not be accurate to say you "have to" leave them?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Timmy

You don't see how loving your family less than you love God may be a factor in having to leave (forsake) them? Never mind, then.

I repeat, the bible does not say that. You are confusing two different verses

OK, it can mean leave. Fine.

That's what it means

The contradiction is was alluding to is the same one you did. That you are told to hate your family, and yet you must love them.

And leaving family is not hating them nor loving them. People leave their families all the time for various reasons like a job or getting married to someone in another location. Evangelists leave their families all the time to go preach

You said hate must be hyperbole. I asked how you decide which of two contradicting scriptures is hyperbole. You haven't answered that.

No I said Jesus was using a hyperbole at that time. A Hyperbole is a literary Rhetorical device to make a point.

I can't answer because I did not SEE any contradicting scriptures. I asked you about that but you haven't answered

What?

Hmmm?

I didn't say it was hyperbole. And all I said was you may have to forsake your family, and if you did, you would be rewarded.

The bible does NOT say you may have to forsake you family. Once again you are asking me to comment on a verse you claim is contradictory that just does not exist

Also consider Matthew 10:34-37:

One issue at a time

Edit: Oh, I said you may have to forsake your family. That's why you thought I thought it was a command. Not exactly. I had in mind a situation where you are given a choice: it's either Jesus or your family. Maybe they are unbelievers and they demand that you forsake your faith, or something. In a situation like that, would it not be accurate to say you "have to" leave them?

You are taking a hypothetical situation and insisting its a verse and I needed to determine if that verse was a hyperbole...the words of Timmy? You tell us, where you speaking hyperbolically? Do we have other words of Timmy to compare it too?

Let me know when you find that "contradiction" in the bible then we can discuss it

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I repeat, the bible does not say that. You are confusing two different verses


That's what it means



And leaving family is not hating them nor loving them. People leave their families all the time for various reasons like a job or getting married to someone in another location. Evangelists leave their families all the time to go preach


No I said Jesus was using a hyperbole at that time. A Hyperbole is a literary Rhetorical device to make a point.

I can't answer because I did not SEE any contradicting scriptures. I asked you about that but you haven't answered


Hmmm?


The bible does NOT say you may have to forsake you family. Once again you are asking me to comment on a verse you claim is contradictory that just does not exist


One issue at a time


You are taking a hypothetical situation and insisting its a verse and I needed to determine if that verse was a hyperbole...the words of Timmy? You tell us, where you speaking hyperbolically? Do we have other words of Timmy to compare it too?

Let me know when you find that "contradiction" in the bible then we can discuss it

Never mind.

[houston]

I agree.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Amanah

which is just a matter of degrees, so then God has degrees of love?

are you ok with God loving you less then me?

Or how about if you were a twin in your Mother's womb and God decided he liked you less and that all your decendents were going to be lost?

Malachi 3:18
Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Malachi 3:18
Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

By quoting this scripture, are you saying that God loves people who serve him more than people who don't? Is that your answer to the question you quoted?

[houston]

Originally Posted by Timmy

By quoting this scripture, are you saying that God loves people who serve him more than people who don't? Is that your answer to the question you quoted?

heh...