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Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun! |
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02-17-2011, 02:05 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,280
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Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
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Originally Posted by faithit166
because said my sheep hear my voice and another they will not follow i have walked with the lord for quite some time now and know when he has spoken
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That's funny, the Lord led me away from that dead religion and into real discipleship. I'm His sheep too. So which of us is really hearing from God? And do we sometimes say too quickly "God said?" Isn't that false prophesying?
So all my experiences and encounters with God, the fact that I've enjoyed the most fulfilling year of living for God ever -- outside of dead religion -- is just really the deceiving devil, huh?
Pray that I see all things the way you do, then I will have "truth."
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02-17-2011, 02:09 PM
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Not riding the train
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 48,544
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Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
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Originally Posted by MissBrattified
I believe that tongues are the initial evidence, but not the only evidence.
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What do you mean? If it is the initial/relating to the beginning evidence, then how can there be another evidence?
Some use Acts 19:6 to prove that you can prophesy as one sign. This verse is simply showing that the "gifts of the spirit" taught in I Cor 12-14 were instantly in operation.
You don't have to have maturity to operate in the gifts, although, the gifts will mature you.
As far as I can see in the Word ( Acts 10:45-46) and until God shows me differently, I don't see there being any other evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost but tongues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified
I'll give that a hesitant yes. Hesitant because I dislike the process in which we feel we must assess new converts and make sure they are speaking in a "fluent" tongue before we approve of their infilling. Hesitant because if someone said they had been filled with the Holy Ghost but hadn't spoken in tongues, I wouldn't contradict them. I feel like people seek after *tongues* more than they seek after God. Or at least, they're encouraged to do so by Apostolics who are after the sign instead of the infilling. Does that make sense? It's not so much what I believe on this point personally; it's more that I don't feel I have the right to really question other people's experiences with God.
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I wouldn't contradict nor belittle someone's experience with God either. It doesn't mean that I have to agree that they have the correct understanding. My BIL once asked me why "feeling joy" when you repent wasn't a sign to mean you had received God's Spirit. I showed him what I saw in the Word because he asked. Otherwise, I would have smiled and said nothing.
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02-17-2011, 02:11 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,351
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Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
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Originally Posted by OldPathsII
I'm sure I'll get yelled at for saying this, but this seems to be how the slide begins. It eventually ends up in an abandoning of the values of our heritage. I've really appreciated your stance on various things since I've been here and I would hope the influence of the liberal culture of AFF and other surroundings won't cause you to compromise further.
Why lip gloss? What is the purpose but to make one more appealing to those with improper intentions? And why cover "zits"? If someone has a pimple they have a pimple. So what? Does pride take over and make us hide?
And if an activity is indecent in a skirt, do something else. That's the apostolic heritage I'm talking about. There once was a generation that didn't care what it cost to follow Jesus. I want to see that happen again!
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Sounding just like the Scribes and Pharisees. It's time to pull the mote out of your eye. All this dabbling into other people's lives, judging them by all this rhetoric will blind you.
I've got over 32 years in this Movement, and I have good friends who believe what you believe. They are blind and cannot see the Truth about people because they are choking to death on Standards. Your theology will draw you into your ideas, your take on God, and your opinions about other people which are not accurate.
Let me ask you something, OPII; do you believe obesity is a sin?
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02-17-2011, 02:12 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,351
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Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
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Originally Posted by Socialite
That's funny, the Lord led me away from that dead religion and into real discipleship. I'm His sheep too. So which of us is really hearing from God? And do we sometimes say too quickly "God said?" Isn't that false prophesying?
So all my experiences and encounters with God, the fact that I've enjoyed the most fulfilling year of living for God ever -- outside of dead religion -- is just really the deceiving devil, huh?
Pray that I see all things the way you do, then I will have "truth."
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02-17-2011, 02:14 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 449
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Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldPathsII
I'm sure I'll get yelled at for saying this, but this seems to be how the slide begins. It eventually ends up in an abandoning of the values of our heritage. I've really appreciated your stance on various things since I've been here and I would hope the influence of the liberal culture of AFF and other surroundings won't cause you to compromise further.
Why lip gloss? What is the purpose but to make one more appealing to those with improper intentions? And why cover "zits"? If someone has a pimple they have a pimple. So what? Does pride take over and make us hide?
And if an activity is indecent in a skirt, do something else. That's the apostolic heritage I'm talking about. There once was a generation that didn't care what it cost to follow Jesus. I want to see that happen again!
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I will not yell, nor will I be disrespectful. I appreciate your convictions and your stand. For me, aside from being baptized, and filled with Gods Spirit, i just don't accept that lip gloss, wearing/not wearing skirts, trimming hair / not trimming hair have nothing to do with being Apostolic in my opinion.
It has been said on here numerous times that standards or the percieved lack thereof is in most cases the "dividing line" between the generations in Apostolica. What some claim as heritage, other claim is simply tradition. This goes into what comvictions are, the difference between that and conforming, and of course uniformity. These things get debated ad nausium.
I know you were not "attcking Miss Brat, but I will say that she is one the most balanced people on this forum, I don't see her as having "compromised" anything.
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02-17-2011, 02:14 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 384
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Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
i dont have a religion socialite i have a relationship, are you saying i didnt hear from god ,and you know what else who would i be to say someone did not hear from god i know what he said to me im not hear to convince you i know nothing about your experiences with god so i think ill use some wisdom and not say anything i pray that god reveals truth to everyone
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02-17-2011, 02:15 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,280
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Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
What do you mean? If it is the initial/relating to the beginning evidence, then how can there be another evidence?
Some use Acts 19:6 to prove that you can prophesy as one sign. This verse is simply showing that the "gifts of the spirit" taught in I Cor 12-14 were instantly in operation.
You don't have to have maturity to operate in the gifts, although, the gifts will mature you.
As far as I can see in the Word ( Acts 10:45-46) and until God shows me differently, I don't see there being any other evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost but tongues.
I wouldn't contradict nor belittle someone's experience with God either. It doesn't mean that I have to agree that they have the correct understanding. My BIL once asked me why "feeling joy" when you repent wasn't a sign to mean you had received God's Spirit. I showed him what I saw in the Word because he asked. Otherwise, I would have smiled and said nothing.
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How did you come to that conclusion?
Then the tongues that were understood at Pentecost were also a gift of the Spirit?
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02-17-2011, 02:15 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In His Hands
Posts: 13,918
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Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldPathsII
I've expressed some dismay at the heavy criticism here when all I've done is promote the basic Acts2:38 New Birth message. It's basics of belief in repentance, baptism in water in Jesus' name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost evidenced by speaking with other tongues.
So could I get an idea of what's here at AFF and just see what people believe by asking these questions?
1: Do you believe that water baptism must be done in the name of Jesus and that any other baptism is not a valid baptism?
2: Do you believe that the infilling of the Holy Ghost is evidenced only by speaking with other tongues?
3: Do you believe these things are absolutely necessary in order to be saved and ready for heaven?
4: Do you hold as a core value the basics of traditional pentecostal holiness which is: Men: full length pants, shirts with sleeves, short hair, Women: uncut hair, no makeup, no pants, shirts with sleeves?
5: Do you believe a trinitarian will go to heaven?
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1) No, I don't believe that the only valid baptism is one where the baptizer literally speaks the NAME of JESUS over the person being baptized.
People who baptize using the Titles as found in Matthew 28 however, are baptizing people in the name, or under the authority of Jesus Christ, and are thus obeying the Bible.
2) No, I don't believe that the Holy Ghost is evidenced only by speaking in other tongues. The Bible doesn't even teach this and now I just think you are trying to get others riled up. I bet you don't even believe this!
3) Which things are you talking about?
4) No, but Jermyn Davidson readily admits that he is not a traditional Pentecostal, neither does he want to be.
5) Yes, I believe that there will be Trinitarians in Heaven.
__________________
"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
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02-17-2011, 02:17 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,351
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Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithit166
because said my sheep hear my voice and another they will not follow i have walked with the lord for quite some time now and know when he has spoken
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Can't you see, it's very easy to use the unproven to prove your point? This is the most abusive form of manipulating people.
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02-17-2011, 02:20 PM
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Not riding the train
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 48,544
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Re: Survey About Doctrinal Beliefs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socialite
How did you come to that conclusion?
Then the tongues that were understood at Pentecost were also a gift of the Spirit?
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Well, yeah, you can't give it to yourself. LOL!
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