Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #71  
Old 12-10-2010, 10:37 PM
TGBTG TGBTG is offline
Jesus is the only Lord God


 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,565
Re: A ? about messianic jews.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord View Post
I agree! It is time to stop splitting hairs, and agree on what the Bible is certain is truth - GOD IS ONE, JESUS died for our sins, and the Holy Ghost is God's spirit working in us. Yes, let's work on "seeking God's face for a change" instead of splitting hairs over something that won't bring salvation in the end anyway!
These are great words uttered. But can we agree on how water baptism should be performed?

In the Name of Jesus Christ?
In the Name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost?

The "understanding of the Godhead" in both camps leads to how water baptism is performed in both camps. I think the water baptism issue is the reason why both camps still and always will remain divided...

Just my $0.02
__________________
...Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ...(Acts 20:21)
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 12-10-2010, 11:03 PM
A.W. Bowman's Avatar
A.W. Bowman A.W. Bowman is offline
A Student of the Word


 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,132
Re: A ? about messianic jews.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TGBTG View Post
These are great words uttered. But can we agree on how water baptism should be performed?

In the Name of Jesus Christ?
In the Name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost?

The "understanding of the Godhead" in both camps leads to how water baptism is performed in both camps. I think the water baptism issue is the reason why both camps still and always will remain divided...

Just my $0.02
Remember - check the original language before creating a doctrine. There is no such think as a Godhead. The term, Godhead, is an English translator's term used to include three different Greek words that describes three different aspects of God's deity.

For a hundred years we have been arguing over a nonexistent 'thing' that means just whatever the word user wants it to mean. It is no wonder that fights have broken out over its usage. Modern day translations are starting to go back and actually use the word deity vice Godhead. However, that move is still lacking in translating the correct meaning of the author's intent.

I think I have some old translation notes somewhere on this forum for anyone interested in researching it further.

For first century baptism methods and modes of Mikvah/Tevilah (baptisms), see the Hebraic cultural and religious history. I have some posts on that somewhere also. It does not resemble our methods much at all, or expresses the same intellectual or spiritual significance as it did then.

Most of our religious practices today still trace there roots from Roman and Greek pagan practices and philosophy, rather than in the spiritual foundations first established in Jerusalem.
__________________
It makes no difference whether you study in the holy language, or in Arabic, or Aramaic [or in Greek or even in English]; it matters only whether it is done with understanding. - Moshe Maimonides.

Last edited by A.W. Bowman; 12-10-2010 at 11:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 12-11-2010, 11:10 AM
mfblume's Avatar
mfblume mfblume is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
Re: A ? about messianic jews.

Is not GODHEAD simply supposed to mean GODHOOD?
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.

"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 12-11-2010, 01:00 PM
A.W. Bowman's Avatar
A.W. Bowman A.W. Bowman is offline
A Student of the Word


 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,132
Re: A ? about messianic jews.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Is not GODHEAD simply supposed to mean GODHOOD?
Mike, I sure do love your contributions to the discussions on this forum!

Yes! That is one of the meanings that the term Godhead was designed to cover.


Of course, this is another translation exercise of mine that was lost in the evaporation process of my computer and backup files earlier this year. But, I did find this translation ‘overview’. The phrase in brackets [xxx], indicates what should have been the included English translations.

One of the major problems with the term Godhead is that it is often used in arguments over the correct mode and manner of conducting the rite of baptisms within the different Christian denominations. Anyway, the term Godhead was simply an expedient way of handling three different Greek terms denoting three different aspects of God’s deity that I assume was to difficult to handle at the time the KJV of the scriptures was being developed.

So, this is a quick overview of the translations of the three words, and still covers almost nothing concerning the interpretations of the three words within the context within which they are found.

While I have lost the translation worksheets (another task that requires redoing), the following is the general results of a word study in reference to the three different Greek terms that are included in the loose term, Godhead. The primary word study reference was Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament by Joseph H. Thayer, Hendrickson Publishers, Inc., Peabody, Mass. 2003.

--------------------------

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead [the one true God] is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

G2304 [Theios]

-------------------

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead [the divine nature of God]; so that they are without excuse: (so…: or, that they may be)

G2305 [Theiotēs]

-----------------

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead [the state of being God, i.e. the essence of God’s deity expressed] bodily.

G2320 [Theotēs]

-----------------

What we are left with are three different Greek words signifying three different aspects of God’s deity all being translated into one English word that is not well defined. The term Godhead (or its synonym) does not exist in any original language text of the Bible.

Can there be any god’s in deity? Not really. For if “deity” contained God, then the attributes of deity would be greater than God. The attributes, elements and composition of those things which express “deity” are contained within and are defined by God, Himself, not the other way around. Therefore God contains His own attributes of deity; He is not contained within nor is He defined by any “external elements” (as generally comprehended by mankind). This point of view also accommodates the meaning of Colossians 2:9, where it is not a ‘something’ that had to be altered in order to dwell fully in Jesus bodily (a given, no man can contain all of what it is to be the infinite God), but rather it was the essences of what it means (attitudes, elements, expressions, abilities, etc.) to be God.

The expressed attitude by Jesus of being totally dependent upon the Father also accommodates the sayings of Jesus when He states that He can do nothing without the Father, that He does only what He sees the Father doing, etc.

Conclusion:

(1) There are no gods in the Godhead, not even one.

(2) All discussions based on the misunderstood and the misused terms are doctrinal discussions based on one or more false premises and are without validly.

(3) The Godhead arguments are not over “how many gods are there?”, but rather over how different people perceive God’s deity. And, there are no scriptural requirements for a salvation based on knowing and understanding the elements, nature, and/or composition of God’s deity (Isaiah 40:28, Romans 11:33-36) beyond those expressly identified by Jesus and His Apostles.

Generally, the disagreements over the Godhead are over the baptismal formula and how it should be administrated, which is quite different from the number of Gods question.

Arguments arising from these mistranslations and interpretations of scripture have resulted in brothers and sisters judging each other harshly. So, rather than building up (edifying), encouraging and bringing unity to the body of Christ, we have been actively engaged in tearing it down and creating divisions – and that should never be! But, this exercise also demonstrates how a little ignorance can result in the murder of another, within one's own heart.
__________________
It makes no difference whether you study in the holy language, or in Arabic, or Aramaic [or in Greek or even in English]; it matters only whether it is done with understanding. - Moshe Maimonides.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Scriptures Messianic Bible ? Scott Hutchinson Fellowship Hall 16 03-28-2009 09:29 AM
Messianic Jewish Revival Letter Elihu Fellowship Hall 18 05-07-2007 10:46 AM
Messianic Jew Revival South of I 90 Fellowship Hall 32 04-03-2007 04:07 PM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by jfrog
- by Salome
- by Amanah

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.