What Happened At Pentecost in Acts 2? - Page 8

mfblume · #71 12-01-2010, 09:03 AM

The simple pattern in Romans 6 is this:

1) KNOW (Ro. 6:3-9)
2) RECKON (Ro. 6:10-12)
3) YIELD. (Ro. 6:13).

First we have to KNOW the facts. We died with Jesus and are as much dead to sin as He was when He died. We must also KNOW we resurrected with Jesus. So, first we have to learn those facts.

Then Romans 6:11 says RECKON. We must now truly apply all these facts to ourselves as individuals. "ME" -- "I" -- died with Jesus and am actually risen with Him with as much victory as He has, since I SHARE IN HIS VICTORY. That is what it means to be JOINT-HEIRS with Jesus!

And the third step is to YIELD. Now that we reckon/consider His experiences to be our own, personally, then we go to God IN THAT FRAME OF MIND. We present ourselves to Him as ALIVE FROM THE DEAD. 6:13. This means we UNDERSTAND we died and are freed from sin (v. 7) and are alive unto God THROUGH CHRIST (through the fact that we shared his death and resurrection ever since we got baptized into that death -- the baptism into His death is where this all started and where we came into union with Him). And presenting yourself to God with that mindset -- "I am here before you God, alive from the dead" -- you have provided God the faith in your life that HE NEEDS TO EMPOWER YOU. You EXPECT Him to empower you because you removed the expectation for you to sin.

When you expect to sin you will find a way to do it!

So Paul removes the expectation to sin by explaining to us and reasoning with us about how we are risen with Christ.

IOW, as much as we depend on Christ's experience of the death of the cross to KNOW we are saved, we apply that same faith in the cross towards VICTORY OVER SIN. As much as we are saved by the cross -- and we are CONVINCED and CONFIDENT of that -- we are likewise now informed in Romans 6 that we are dead to sin!

mfblume · #72 12-01-2010, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

That is almost more than understanding, it seems it needs to be a revelation. LOL! Good post! Thanks again!

It's one of the most precious revelations I think we could get! It is to me, anyway. It's so practical! Victory in everyday life where the rubber meets the road.

You got me goin' now, sis!

Pressing-On · #73 12-01-2010, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

The simple pattern in Romans 6 is this:

1) KNOW (Ro. 6:3-9)
2) RECKON (Ro. 6:10-12)
3) YIELD. (Ro. 6:13).

First we have to KNOW the facts. We died with Jesus and are as much dead to sin as He was when He died. We must also KNOW we resurrected with Jesus. So, first we have to learn those facts.

Then Romans 6:11 says RECKON. We must now truly apply all these facts to ourselves as individuals. "ME" -- "I" -- died with Jesus and am actually risen with Him with as much victory as He has, since I SHARE IN HIS VICTORY. That is what it means to be JOINT-HEIRS with Jesus!

And the third step is to YIELD. Now that we reckon/consider His experiences to be our own, personally, then we go to God IN THAT FRAME OF MIND. We present ourselves to Him as ALIVE FROM THE DEAD. 6:13. This means we UNDERSTAND we died and are freed from sin (v. 7) and are alive unto God THROUGH CHRIST (through the fact that we shared his death and resurrection ever since we got baptized into that death -- the baptism into His death is where this all started and where we came into union with Him). And presenting yourself to God with that mindset -- "I am here before you God, alive from the dead" -- you have provided God the faith in your life that HE NEEDS TO EMPOWER YOU. You EXPECT Him to empower you because you removed the expectation for you to sin.

When you expect to sin you will find a way to do it!

So Paul removes the expectation to sin by explaining to us and reasoning with us about how we are risen with Christ.

IOW, as much as we depend on Christ's experience of the death of the cross to KNOW we are saved, we apply that same faith in the cross towards VICTORY OVER SIN. As much as we are saved by the cross -- and we are CONVINCED and CONFIDENT of that -- we are likewise now informed in Romans 6 that we are dead to sin!

Why does the Word say, "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" (I John 2:1)

It comes across as expecting our human nature to fail.

Pressing-On · #74 12-01-2010, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

It's one of the most precious revelations I think we could get! It is to me, anyway. It's so practical! Victory in everyday life where the rubber meets the road.

You got me goin' now, sis!

I see that! LOL! One of those internet forum conversations that seem much more productive and not a waste of time. LOL!

mfblume · #75 12-01-2010, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Why does the Word say, "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" (I John 2:1)

It comes across as expecting our human nature to fail.

First, it says John wrote what he did so that we would not sin. So the expectation of God is that we do not sin. Emphasize that first clause... "I write for the purpose that you do not sin." So John believed we can live above sin! Otherwise, he would not have said that.

But notice he addresses "little children". In 1 John 2:13 he categorizes believers into three levels of maturity. Little children, young men and fathers. Little children do not understand the deeper things of God, yet. This is not speaking of natural age of people, but spiritual level of maturity. A person can be 50 years old and merely a spiritual little child. And the pattern of maturity sees those who are in the immature level as people who have no clue nor have been taught anything about death to sin. Peter even called Paul's words about righteousness as truths that are hard to be understood. So it is little surprise that Romans 6 is not well known. And that is the reason so many tend to expect to sin, and think that is the only lot we have in life.

Watchman Nee taught a lot on this and called a victorious life over sin with the revelation of Romans 6 the "Normal Christian Life." Paul writes, asking if people ever KNEW they died with Jesus as though Paul is saying the NORMAL life we are expected to live by the cross is victory over sin. So Nee entitled his book THE NORMAL CHRISTIAN LIFE. I highly recommend it. It is NORMAL as far as God is concerned, but so abnormal to the average believer today.

So little children are expected to fail since they are expected to not get this revelation until they mature.

mfblume · #76 12-01-2010, 09:19 AM

Now, this is not free of controversy! lol

MANY MANY believe that Romans 6 proposes only an IDEAL. They say we cannot REALLY live above sin, but should try to get there, although we never will in this life. I deny that. I think it lacks revelation of what Paul was actually saying.

Pressing-On · #77 12-01-2010, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

First, it says John wrote what he did so that we would not sin. So the expectation of God is that we do not sin. Emphasize that first clause... "I write for the purpose that you do not sin." So John believed we can live above sin! Otherwise, he would not have said that.

But notice he addresses "little children". In 1 John 2:13 he categorizes believers into three levels of maturity. Little children, young men and fathers. Little children do not understand the deeper things of God, yet. This is not speaking of natural age of people, but spiritual level of maturity. A person can be 50 years old and merely a spiritual little child. And the pattern of maturity sees those who are in the immature level as people who have no clue nor have been taught anything about death to sin. Peter even called Paul's words about righteousness as truths that are hard to be understood. So it is little surprise that Romans 6 is not well known. And that is the reason so many tend to expect to sin, and think that is the only lot we have in life.

Watchman Nee taught a lot on this and called a victorious life over sin with the revelation of Romans 6 the "Normal Christian Life." Paul writes, asking if people ever KNEW they died with Jesus as though Paul is saying the NORMAL life we are expected to live by the cross is victory over sin. So Nee entitled his book THE NORMAL CHRISTIAN LIFE. I highly recommend it. It is NORMAL as far as God is concerned, but so abnormal to the average believer today.

Yes, I see that now - "little children, young men, fathers".

A lot of responsibility when - "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48.

I will read that book. I've heard of it, but never read it.

Thanks again! Guess you are ready for service tonight, if you have a service on Wednesday nights. LOL!

Pressing-On · #78 12-01-2010, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Now, this is not free of controversy! lol

MANY MANY believe that Romans 6 proposes only an IDEAL. They say we cannot REALLY live above sin, but should try to get there, although we never will in this life. I deny that. I think it lacks revelation of what Paul was actually saying.

That might be relating and involving what I heard as a "Perfection Doctrine" going around. I didn't get into that and don't know what it all entailed, but that might be why some backed up with the IDEAL view of Romans 6?

mfblume · #79 12-01-2010, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Yes, I see that now - "little children, young men, fathers".

A lot of responsibility when - "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48.

I will read that book. I've heard of it, but never read it.

It is online for free!

http://www.ccel.org/n/nee/normal/

Quote:

Thanks again! Guess you are ready for service tonight, if you have a service on Wednesday nights. LOL!

It would be hard to resist teaching this, but I planted a new church and we do not have midweek meetings yet. Keep us in prayer.

mfblume · #80 12-01-2010, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

That might be relating and involving what I heard as a "Perfection Doctrine" going around. I didn't get into that and don't know what it all entailed, but that might be why some backed up with the IDEAL view of Romans 6?

I think so. "Sinless perfection" is a doctrine that looks to Romans 6, but I'm not sure if it is not a bad title for a teaching.

Gal 5 plainly says that so long as we walk after the Spirit, we will not fulfill works of the flesh or sins. As soon as we cease walking after the Spirit, by losing the faith of Romans 6:13, we slip right back into committing sins again.

I also think the IDEALIST doctrine started with people who never did get the Holy Ghost baptism, and therefore have no power to resist sin, anyway! So it became an excuse for lack of Spirit infilling.