Why Is The "Christmas Spirit" So Different?

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Okay... thanks.

I am an odd cookie in the realm of non christmas practicing Christians. I have never attended a church that preached against christmas in my life and I participated in the holiday until my early 30's. My eldest daughter had her last christmas when she was 2 years old. My other 2 have never participated in the holiday.

The interesting thing, to me, is that when my daughter was 2 and Christmas was nearing my wife and I had been so busy writing, producing & putting on the Christmas play at the church that we had not found the time to buy a tree and it was December 24th. We finally decided that, even at that late hour, we would see if we could find a tree.

We did... and we decorated it etc and at the behest of my MIL who told us we'd better go out and get that baby some presents... we did so. (She didn't show much interest in the presents but she did LOVE the cardboard boxes they came in. )

As I stated I had never been in a church that preached against christmas. I had always celebrated christmas and had never had a thought in my mind that we should do anything but celebrate christmas.

That evening as we sat in our living room with the lights out, music playing and the christmas lights blinking I uttered a phrase so matter of factly that it really escaped our notice at that time. I sat there and said "Someday this will be as wrong for us as halloween is today."

That was our last Christmas. A series of circumstances began to come into motion beginning in February of the next year that led to us never picking up the practice again. I have to admit that in the infancy of my conviction the pagan origins were the basis that I focused on. There was a need built in that it be a sin... and wrong... because in Christianity we don't hold convictions that won't send us to hell. We do everything that doesn't send us to hell.

But over the years my conviction and love for the conviction has grown, deepened and centered itself to where I am today.

I am free. (Please... no one need to make a comment on that... this is just a statement of how I feel)

When I watch the chaos and madness of the season I am increasingly glad the hold on me is no longer there. It is frustrating that you can't go buy a wrench because of the huge masses of people and I can't even listen to good ole contemporary christian music on the way there.

My parents fought me tooth & toe nail but now state that I couldn't drag them back kicking and screaming. I am thankful for the freedom we have from the craziness that is inherent with the celebration. I get together with my family because we all have time off. I also get together with them in the summer some time and we always have fun... it's just the result of family getting together.

Some people used to smoke cigarettes and if they say "I am free" it isn't because they don't smoke anymore. It is because they don't smoke anymore AND they don't want to smoke anymore.

If one doesn't smoke anymore and yet still want to smoke... they are smoke free... but they aren't yet free. People who refrain from celebrating and yet still yearn to celebrate will seldom ever be free.

They may be free from certain practices.
They may be free from created unnecessary debt.
They may be free from a list of required gift giving.

But until one is free from the desire... one is never free.

I repeat... I am free. And it is a wonderful feeling.

I don't require anyone else follow in my footsteps and I don't condemn those who don't follow in my footsteps. God led me here. Not man... not condemnation... not even hell, fire & brimstone preaching.

And as I look around I have to give Him thanks because this is a beautiful place where I reside and I could have never, ever found it on my own.

Great post. It is interesting some will stand against halloween but celebrate christmas.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Sam

Our church auditorium has been decorated for Christmas with greenery, etc. and a Christmas tree on the platform. I have no problem with that. Actually, I like it.

I believe that things like Christmas, Easter, Halloween, Birthdays, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, etc fall into the Romans chapter 14 category.

I don't remember none of that ion romans 14. Isn't talking about meats.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Romans 14 and 1 Cor 8 and 1 Cor 10 got me, as well. If Paul ate meat offered to idols, and it was only eating food to him... go figure.

Eating meats and pagan worship customs are not in the same boat.

That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Since you guys want to compare christmas to meats would you stop celebrating it if I was part of your church if it offended me?


21It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by missourimary

D4T, following through with what you've said, taking the day off is acknowledgement of a pagan holiday. Those who don't celebrate such holidays surely shouldn't take the day off, since the holiday is not a by-product of the idolatry, but is part of the idolatry itself.

I usually work. Some have no choice but to take off.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Eating meats and pagan worship customs are not in the same boat.

That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Since you guys want to compare christmas to meats would you stop celebrating it if I was part of your church if it offended me?


21It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

Interesting question. If we went to the same church and I was single, I would certainly not be in your face about it, nor invite you over to my house (since it would be decorated) since I knew it would offend you, but I would not stop celebrating. (Actually, the "single" part is somewhat irrelevant since I was going to make a point about my wife and kids celebrating takes precedent over you not celebrating. See example of the wedding ring below. But since I would celebrate regardless of whether I had a family or was single it doesn't matter my marital state. Either way I would not be "in YOUR face!" about it, as long as you weren't in mine.)

Likewise if you were offended by my wedding ring I would NOT take it off because my wife would be even more offended if I did so, and she takes precedent. (Just an example since I think I know your view on jewelry based on on the jewelry thread.)

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I will comment on this. I'm not looking for an argument but I see this applied often and I don't think that the application is true to the intent of the scripture nor to the point being made.

The scripture speaks of eating meat offered to idols and that it isn't a problem but if someone is weak then we should refrain from it for their sakes... in so many words.

Now I am aware of Brother Blume's notion that these practices have been in christianity so long that their pagan origins are no longer an issue but I am simply speaking to the inference that was made by him on these scriptures.

So... let's label a few things.

Meat offered to idols... this is a by product of a pagan practice... a food product which is solely there because of a pagan practice.

Offerings to idols... these are ACTUAL pagan practices.

I can go into this deeper but I am going to try and keep this short. So lets get straight to the point and I'll see if I can bypass lengthy discussion.

Paul is not saying taking part in pagan rituals or practices is okay. Paul would never say... if we worship God by making sacrifices like the pagans do that's okay unless your weaker brother has a problem with it then you should refrain. He is making that statement at all.

And yet the things we discuss along the lines of christmas are discussions of actual pagan practices that were "converted" to christianity.

If we were to take what Paul said and apply it to something that we could relate to today it would be this...

It's okay to buy halloween candy as long as it isn't an offense to your weaker brother. We all know that it's nothing but candy and there is no harm in eating it... it even goes on sale REAL cheap right after halloween. But if your brother is offended then you would do well to refrain.

This is in direct keeping with what Paul was saying. He is saying this is a byproduct of a pagan practice. You aren't taking part in the practice you are just taking part in the great food prices brought about by said paganism.

To say that Paul was saying that the practice itself is okay is beyond the scope, intent and purpose of the statement Paul was making.

Another great post. I wonder if it would be ok for those past pagans to keep preparing/offering up the meats as along as it's to honor Christ??? Kinda like how christmas was pagans bringing their customs over into the church.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Interesting question. If we went to the same church and I was single, I would certainly not be in your face about it, nor invite you over to my house (since it would be decorated) since I knew it would offend you, but I would not stop celebrating. (Actually, the "single" part is somewhat irrelevant since I was going to make a point about my wife and kids celebrating takes precedent over you not celebrating. See example of the wedding ring below.)

Likewise if you were offended by my wedding ring I would NOT take it off because my wife would be even more offended if I did so, and she takes precedent. (Just an example since I think I know your view on jewelry based on on the jewelry thread.)

I just bring that out because they want to use the "meat" scriptures to compare to christmas, but if they're going to do that then they should go all the way with the scriptures by not partaking if one is offended like the scriptures state.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Eating meats and pagan worship customs are not in the same boat.

That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Since you guys want to compare christmas to meats would you stop celebrating it if I was part of your church if it offended me?

21It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

I do not celebrate christmas in church.

But the issue is not different from eating meats offered to idols, because the reason people were offended was because eating it was in honour of the idol in pagan circles! And offences derived due to eating the meat showed a weakness in the one offended. So the stronger "conscienced" person is told to not offend such a person. In other words, do nothing in front of a weak-conscienced person, but do it when you are not around them. Those who claim they are offended are admitting they are weak and cannot serve God if they see someone offending them. I think it is not so much offense that is the issue but rather dealing with folks who cannot stand to think someone disagrees with them.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

I just bring that out because they want to use the "meat" scriptures to compare to christmas, but if they're going to do that then they should go all the way with the scriptures by not partaking if one is offended like the scriptures state.

Right. They should! And I stand by my statement. But is it really offense or just frustration due to disagreement?

[Truthseeker]

What is this saying:


That ye abstain from meats offered to idols