My view is the same as most of the other old-timers. I've been here from the start and through all of the different variations and the drama associated with it.
I do love everyone here, but I do feel that there has been a progression away from what was intended. I almost never post, anymore, and rarely read anything, except for the Sis Alvear threads.
There is much more I would like to say, but I do not believe that it would make a difference.
Jim Yohe used to rattle my chain, greatly, but he made me think.
I do not think he would be impressed with the current forum.
One thing to keep in mind is that there are, and have been for several months, just one or two posters with a rotating list of screen names who act like attack dogs one moment then play the "Oh whoa is me, I'm being persecuted!" role when some people bite back. Just one such person can really ruin the whole board in my humble opinion.
But..... When talking with the old guard of the UPC, I seem to remember from here and other boards a complete refusal to discuss non-traditional ideas and will ban someone at the drop of a hat -think, Everyone's Apostolic for many examples. So on one hand you have irritating jerks, and on the other you have the apostolic gestapo/good ol boys club/amen corner. Pick your poison.
I love the UPCI. I always have. In some respects, it is a weird relationship. Doctrinally I am simpatico but application of the doctrine is another story all together. I do hate to see some of the nonsense that I see here. AFF if proof that Darwin was 180 degrees wrong. We do not evolve. We devolve.
I grew up in a church that was moderate in everything. My home church was an old PCI church from before the merger… and proof that not all PCI churches were PCI in doctrine.
I do realize that some have had a hard time in the organization that I dearly love. No question about that. It is real and I can understand a certain amount of anger etc but the bitterness and vitriol that pops up far too often is simply draining.
That is the reason I no longer engage on any topic that resembles doctrine. There is no longer a point. The entire thing is beyond reason and there is no rhyme to it. I post here because of friends I have made over the last 10 years or so going back to the FCF days. I won’t stop posting with my friends, but I have sure changed what I will post about.
I hate to see my friend John go the way so many others have. It is sad. For some there is no control. For others everything is a crusade. Whatever the case I do have a certain nostalgia for the good old days when there was balance. There is none anymore. The whiners and complainers and haters have won the field. It is sometimes hard to take but I get the rules in this particular sandbox. I slip away when I can’t stomach the insanity.
Least anyone think I don’t get it you can check here for part of my story here … yea we all have one.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I love the UPCI. I always have. In some respects, it is a weird relationship. Doctrinally I am simpatico but application of the doctrine is another story all together. I do hate to see some of the nonsense that I see here. AFF if proof that Darwin was 180 degrees wrong. We do not evolve. We devolve.
I grew up in a church that was moderate in everything. My home church was an old PCI church from before the merger… and proof that not all PCI churches were PCI in doctrine.
I do realize that some have had a hard time in the organization that I dearly love. No question about that. It is real and I can understand a certain amount of anger etc but the bitterness and vitriol that pops up far too often is simply draining.
That is the reason I no longer engage on any topic that resembles doctrine. There is no longer a point. The entire thing is beyond reason and there is no rhyme to it. I post here because of friends I have made over the last 10 years or so going back to the FCF days. I won’t stop posting with my friends, but I have sure changed what I will post about.
I hate to see my friend John go the way so many others have. It is sad. For some there is no control. For others everything is a crusade. Whatever the case I do have a certain nostalgia for the good old days when there was balance. There is none anymore. The whiners and complainers and haters have won the field. It is sometimes hard to take but I get the rules in this particular sandbox. I slip away when I can’t stomach the insanity.
Least anyone think I don’t get it you can check here for part of my story here … yea we all have one.
Yep.
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
I love the UPCI. I always have. In some respects, it is a weird relationship. Doctrinally I am simpatico but application of the doctrine is another story all together. I do hate to see some of the nonsense that I see here. AFF if proof that Darwin was 180 degrees wrong. We do not evolve. We devolve.
I grew up in a church that was moderate in everything. My home church was an old PCI church from before the merger… and proof that not all PCI churches were PCI in doctrine.
I do realize that some have had a hard time in the organization that I dearly love. No question about that. It is real and I can understand a certain amount of anger etc but the bitterness and vitriol that pops up far too often is simply draining.
That is the reason I no longer engage on any topic that resembles doctrine. There is no longer a point. The entire thing is beyond reason and there is no rhyme to it. I post here because of friends I have made over the last 10 years or so going back to the FCF days. I won’t stop posting with my friends, but I have sure changed what I will post about.
I hate to see my friend John go the way so many others have. It is sad. For some there is no control. For others everything is a crusade. Whatever the case I do have a certain nostalgia for the good old days when there was balance. There is none anymore. The whiners and complainers and haters have won the field. It is sometimes hard to take but I get the rules in this particular sandbox. I slip away when I can’t stomach the insanity.
Least anyone think I don’t get it you can check here for part of my story here … yea we all have one.
Ferd, I really liked reading this part..........
Quote:
Every day I wake up and make a conscious decision not to allow anyone to hurt me. That does not mean I don’t get close to people or that I insulate myself from connecting to people. No way. I have good friends. I love my wife with every fiber of my being. I believe we need to be close to people. But I control the switch that allows someone's words or deeds to affect my life. Things get said and then things escalate, then someone gets mad and the whole thing can spin out of control and it happens because someone makes a decision to take real offence to what has been said.
I'm going to miss John, the italian stalion, too. I hope he repents of his decision and comes back and learns to ignore the graceless greasy gracers.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
Ah well, what was was telling you people to grow up and get over was your hatred of the UPC, bad on me. CH Tatum is right. I helped Jim Yohe set up FCF, during a phase when NFCF was shut down for awhile I set up a forum for free for all the members to hang out at, called "the island".
I setup AFF for the owners therof and have worked to keep the backend going, fixed it when it was broke etc etc.
The true colors of this place now shine through. I express my love for an org I am not a part of (BTW, I love the ALJC too, not a member there either) and state they do a lot more good than bad, and I get jumped on by a pack of wolves.
So... ya'll have at it. I wash my hands of this place and will have nothing further to do with it.
This isn't an immature hissey fit, lets just say the straws have been piling on for quite some time. Everytime I read a post or a thread badmouthing some preacher or org another straw gets added. This thread was simply the final one.
The silent benefactor of 7 years has left the building...ciao people.
We are all seeing Reformation take place, and those who can't let go of Traditions which are based upon ideals that are easily refuted by modern facts and research will struggle with this change.
This reminds me of a famous quote coming from the lips of my parents or grandparents (which I use now LOL), "When I was young, we did it THIS WAY".
Well, I've learned that those growing up may do things a different way. Look at music. Right under our noses, the world of music has changed in the UPCI and every other Religion in this Country. At first, many couldn't stand the "New Sound", as the melodies of yesterday were deeply engrained in our Cultural fiber. We labeled songs as Worldy, with a Worldly beat, but now we're tapping our feet to a different song. I remember when Churches wouldn't allow drums, but today they use this instrument in these changing times, and even Electric Guitars!!!!
Traditions are bondage, especially when the Tradition is done only because we did it yesterday. If the facts bear out that a certain way of our Faith is wrong, well, we are left with a decision to make.
I think in this day and age of information, people are well able to challenge things that we were told were God's Idea, and this is good. No longer can the manipulator, manipulate like he used too. This Forum has evolved because people understand and are more educated. We are also reaping the sour fruit of yesterday’s dogmatic and hard core preaching. It’s like the Baby Boomers; these teenagers are now adults and run this Country. These same kids that were hammered under abusive ministries that commanded obedience are now adults and have a valid voice, and, they want real answers.
We are also seeing what happens to every Denominal Faith; after time, people find other paths to take because the current path has become stale, and full of empty promises. The once thought of "Utopia" of Truth, has been found to be not so Truthful. Look at divorce; so many were led to believe that we were different than other Churches, and certainly the World. Today, our divorce rate is just as high as anywhere else.
The hard pill to swallow is this; the UPCI is just another RELIGION.
I hate to see my friend John go the way so many others have. It is sad. For some there is no control. For others everything is a crusade. Whatever the case I do have a certain nostalgia for the good old days when there was balance. There is none anymore. The whiners and complainers and haters have won the field. It is sometimes hard to take but I get the rules in this particular sandbox. I slip away when I can’t stomach the insanity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
I'm going to miss John, the Italian Stallion, too. I hope he repents of his decision and comes back and learns to ignore the graceless greasy gracers.
It's not the love you express that is the problem. It is the backhanding of those you differ with while saying you're not backhanding them that is the problem. That's great you've been a silent benefactor and all, but it doesn't make me change my views.
Exactly correct! John HIMSELF took a shot at the UPC in his opening diatribe. But somehow none of us can. That's very inconsistent and completely unfair.
I recently sat with a young man who poured his heart out about the things that he's experienced through his lifetime within the circles of the UPC, and it's the stuff that happens, not just in isolated places, but things that only take place in hard-line pentecostal churches. My goodness, the damage that's been done to him is unthinkable, and it was from THE SYSTEM, not some out-of-control preacher. We're talking District Boards, here.
So maybe you'd prefer we all be silent about the heartache and abuse that happens because of THE SYSTEM, but somebody needs to say something!!!
But somehow it's ok if you (John) throw in your dig about not agreeing with the doctrine, but then WE'RE the ones that are wrong. The game you're playing isn't fair.
All that being said, thank you for the times you've worked tirelessly to restore the forum when it's been broken. You have my applause for that.
I love the UPCI. I always have. In some respects, it is a weird relationship. Doctrinally I am simpatico but application of the doctrine is another story all together. I do hate to see some of the nonsense that I see here. AFF if proof that Darwin was 180 degrees wrong. We do not evolve. We devolve.
I grew up in a church that was moderate in everything. My home church was an old PCI church from before the merger… and proof that not all PCI churches were PCI in doctrine.
I do realize that some have had a hard time in the organization that I dearly love. No question about that. It is real and I can understand a certain amount of anger etc but the bitterness and vitriol that pops up far too often is simply draining.
That is the reason I no longer engage on any topic that resembles doctrine. There is no longer a point. The entire thing is beyond reason and there is no rhyme to it. I post here because of friends I have made over the last 10 years or so going back to the FCF days. I won’t stop posting with my friends, but I have sure changed what I will post about.
I hate to see my friend John go the way so many others have. It is sad. For some there is no control. For others everything is a crusade. Whatever the case I do have a certain nostalgia for the good old days when there was balance. There is none anymore. The whiners and complainers and haters have won the field. It is sometimes hard to take but I get the rules in this particular sandbox. I slip away when I can’t stomach the insanity.
Least anyone think I don’t get it you can check here for part of my story here … yea we all have one.
I read your story. My commendations for the way you have handled it.
Can I just say that I believe your ordeal is similar in offense, but different in dynamics, to what many experience. I don't believe you suffered the ungodliness of "THE SYSTEM" but rather, an out-of-control nut case.
And I believe there's a MAJOR difference.
There are many out there.....thousands and thousands, who have been swallowed up, chewed up, and spit out, but THE SYSTEM and its policies, and that is what makes people run the most. If it's ONE GUY, there seems to be an escape. But when it's the ENTIRE SYSTEM...you just can't get away from it without leaving completely.
The church is like a little paper boat floating in a stagnant puddle of water facing a 30 foot wall of water bearing down on it (which is really just compiled knowledge and information) - behold the power of the internet....
I read your story. My commendations for the way you have handled it.
Can I just say that I believe your ordeal is similar in offense, but different in dynamics, to what many experience. I don't believe you suffered the ungodliness of "THE SYSTEM" but rather, an out-of-control nut case.
And I believe there's a MAJOR difference.
There are many out there.....thousands and thousands, who have been swallowed up, chewed up, and spit out, but THE SYSTEM and its policies, and that is what makes people run the most. If it's ONE GUY, there seems to be an escape. But when it's the ENTIRE SYSTEM...you just can't get away from it without leaving completely.
I agree that I was not victimized by "the system". I reject the notion that "the system" is ungodly or evil or victimizing. That is your issue and those of you who make a lifestyle out of hand wringing and shouting about how evil the system is, do neither yourselves nor anyone else any favors.
Most of that “system” stuff is your own inability to simply be who you are and walk away from what you have changed your mind about.
I do realize that is a hard thing to do. While I will not get into any detail, in my first post, I point out that while I am pretty much on board with UPCI DOCTRINE I am not so on board with a lot of its application. That has led to a good deal of looking at me and making big boy decisions. Where I have chosen to apply different standards (how’s that for a pun?), I have owned my own actions. There are those who don’t approve. I don’t care. They may talk about me (I know they have). I still do not care.
There is no “system” problem. There are only reactions to the system. You own your own reactions bro. Regardless of what you may think, the system has done nothing. There may be some who like the system that become an issue for you, (please refer back to my linked story). But the system is nothing more than a framework that existed before you were born.
It is no different than having a job. If you worked for some company that one day you wake up and decide you don’t like what they are doing, you can’t show up and start yelling at everybody about how awful they are. You’re going to lose that job if you do. The system isn’t the issue. YOU are. When you walk away, don’t expect those who still love their jobs to choose you over the job they love. You aren’t putting bread on their table.
The same with the “system” that is the UPCI. The day you wake up and realize they are a bunch of Godless heathens, is not the day the UPCI members decide you are their prophet. You are the one who changed. You cannot and should not expect them to like your change, agree with your change or act like you have not changed.
I think this is the real heart of my issue with so many on AFF. Nobody wants to own their own actions. It’s the “System’s” fault. It is the UPCI’s fault. Some just blast away. Others work really hard at dismantling every doctrine taught by the org in Quixotic fashion. Whatever. Its tiring. And silly. Be who you are and have the guts to allow others to do the same.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. 
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