Thank God for Miracles!

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Esther

Sorry I don't see it that way. And if you look at everything from this point then you would be saying; I have a home, but the man/woman on the street without one, God took theirs away.

I don't look at life that way.

There are things God "allows" but He does not do. Is that simple enough?

Are you thanking God for doing an act to spare your family or not? If you are then all this stuff about God allowing things to happen has no part in our conversation.

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

NO IT IS NOT POSSIBLE!!!!!!!

I'll make a deal with you...the next time someone in YOUR family is diagnosed with a deadly disease and moronic Christians show up at your door, on your phone, and in your mailbox claiming that God has appointed this deadly disease JUST so He can get your attention, I'll let YOU describe how it feels and as well, explain the view of God one must have to see Him that way. It has happened to me!!!!

Been there - done that - if there was a t-shirt, I'd have it! It doesn't feel good.....

In another situation, I have a family member that when diagnosed with cancer suddenly realized that he needed God - I seriously doubt that without that "wake-up call", he would have fully committed and yielded to God. Until that point, he felt that God had more important things to deal with than his life. He was a "good man" and could very well take care of himself and his family - thank you very much God, but there are people who are more needy than me. You can help them. Suddenly he couldn't take care of himself and realized that he needed God.

You missed my point - maybe it was a wake-up call for Esther's family - not the family that was killed. It could have been a wake up call even if the other family had not perished. But God is God - His ways are not our ways! My heart breaks for the family that perished....

I'll make a deal with YOU - If you don't believe that prayers make a difference - then stop praying !

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Been there - done that - if there was a t-shirt, I'd have it! It doesn't feel good.....

In another situation, I have a family member that when diagnosed with cancer suddenly realized that he needed God - I seriously doubt that without that "wake-up call", he would have fully committed and yielded to God. Until that point, he felt that God had more important things to deal with than his life. He was a "good man" and could very well take care of himself and his family - thank you very much God, but there are people who are more needy than me. You can help them. Suddenly he couldn't take care of himself and realized that he needed God.

You missed my point - maybe it was a wake-up call for Esther's family - not the family that was killed. It could have been a wake up call even if the other family had not perished. But God is God - His ways are not our ways! My heart breaks for the family that perished....

I'll make a deal with YOU - If you don't believe that prayers make a difference - then stop praying !

And you missed mine. God doesn't cause cancer or deadly automobile accidents in order to "Get someone's attention." You said, "ISN'T IT POSSIBLE THAT GOD USED THIS AS A WAKE-UP CALL FOR THIS FAMILY", correct? You said "used it" as in "Caused it". You didn't say, "Using it" as in something God is doing AFTER the accident. That was certainly the way the words were grammatically used. And I say "NO HE DID NOT!!!" Can someone's awareness of their eternity be increased as a result? Of course. But does God set things in motion so that awareness can take place? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

My entire point since I started this discussion back on the first page of this thread, is this: Can our maturity in Christ reach such a place where we are MORE heartbroken by the devastation of others than we are overcome with the joy of our success? THAT is the heartbeat of John 3:16 and the great commission. It is the heartbeat of Paul in I Corinthians 9.

The original thread starter was horrifying to me. She rejoiced ONLY that her family was saved and indicated just how bad it was by stating that another family was killed. NO mention, ZERO, of any grief for that other family and ONLY when I brought it up and others joined in did she say, "Yes, that was awful." How in the WORLD can someone claim a "Miracle" when a mom, dad, and two teens were BURNED TO DEATH?????????

I CANNOT PROCESS THAT!!!

I'll stick to my guns forever on this one. I will LOUDLY say that I am more heartbroken by the devastation that took place than the fact someone DID NOT get killed. There are 300 million people in this country that didn't die yesterday. It's not terribly newsworthy. But there was only ONE family of four that was BURNED ALIVE.

THAT is where the focus should be!!!!

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

And you missed mine. God doesn't cause cancer or deadly automobile accidents in order to "Get someone's attention." You said, "ISN'T IT POSSIBLE THAT GOD USED THIS AS A WAKE-UP CALL FOR THIS FAMILY", correct? You said "used it" as in "Caused it". You didn't say, "Using it" as in something God is doing AFTER the accident. That was certainly the way the words were grammatically used. And I say "NO HE DID NOT!!!" Can someone's awareness of their eternity be increased as a result? Of course. But does God set things in motion so that awareness can take place? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

My entire point since I started this discussion back on the first page of this thread, is this: Can our maturity in Christ reach such a place where we are MORE heartbroken by the devastation of others than we are overcome with the joy of our success? THAT is the heartbeat of John 3:16 and the great commission. It is the heartbeat of Paul in I Corinthians 9.

The original thread starter was horrifying to me. She rejoiced ONLY that her family was saved and indicated just how bad it was by stating that another family was killed. NO mention, ZERO, of any grief for that other family and ONLY when I brought it up and others joined in did she say, "Yes, that was awful." How in the WORLD can someone claim a "Miracle" when a mom, dad, and two teens were BURNED TO DEATH?????????

I CANNOT PROCESS THAT!!!

I'll stick to my guns forever on this one. I will LOUDLY say that I am more heartbroken by the devastation that took place than the fact someone DID NOT get killed. There are 300 million people in this country that didn't die yesterday. It's not terribly newsworthy. But there was only ONE family of four that was BURNED ALIVE.

THAT is where the focus should be!!!!

Okay - I'm not going to "shout" any more..... however, I do think you misunderstood my post.... my intention was not to say God "caused" it when I typed he "used it". There are some things that are just "life". Car wrecks happen, people get cancer or some other terrible disease. It's all part Adam's fall. I don't believe that God gives anyone cancer, or that he moves cars around on the road to have wrecks so that people will see their need of Him - however, when these things happen, I do believe that he "uses" the circumstances. Is this a better explanation for you? That's what I meant all along. Hopefully, the niece will be stirred by the near accident that her family was involved in and turn her heart toward God. Although it is a tragedy, the simple fact of knowing what happened to the other family could have happened to her family should give her pause to stop and think about how she is living her life.

If you have posted with Esther at all, you would realize that your assumption that she rejoiced that another family and not her family died a horrific death, is totally wrong !

I think we all agree that the circumstances are tragic for the other family. May God be with their extended family and friends.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Are you thanking God for doing an act to spare your family or not? If you are then all this stuff about God allowing things to happen has no part in our conversation.

Yes!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Esther

Sorry I don't see it that way. And if you look at everything from this point then you would be saying; I have a home, but the man/woman on the street without one, God took theirs away.

I don't look at life that way.

There are things God "allows" but He does not do. Is that simple enough?

Esther, this is a complex issue and I don't think you advance your position by taunting. Your tone actually tends to show that you haven't really thought things through very well.

[pelathais]

There was a saying in the ancient world that went something like: "The arrow does not recognize the courageous warrior."

In ancient warfare the archers would fire their volleys in ranks and not at any particular single target. Wherever an individual arrow landed was determined entirely by chance and the movements of the onrushing horde. The arrow volleys were intended to thin the ranks so that the hand-to-hand combat might favor the defending side.

In the warrior culture, the warrior who ran headlong into battle without regard to his own safety was greatly admired. However, it was observed that these types who didn't crouch behind a shield were also cut down with greater frequency. The arrow didn't appear to recognize or "favor" the brave.

The "arrow" was seen as a symbol which signified all of the things in life over which a person had no control. Dysentery and cholera struck down the healthy and the rich as well as the sick and the poor ("sick" and "poor" were usually the same individuals). Lightning and floods ravaged all who were in the path of the storm, but some were spared due to unseen forces or just random luck.

Did God favor these pigs in an Iowa flood over the livestock that drowned?





If so, why? Your position forces us all to visualize a capricious and uncaring "god" who has little regard for the lives of human beings - but he goes to great lengths to save three little piggies in Iowa. I reject that "god."

Do you think God favors His people when they play the lottery? If so, why has no OP ever won one of the really big jackpots? We could have used that money to keep WEC open. Instead, WEC has been forced to cut staff and do drastic layoffs. Why? Why doesn't God intervene?

Where was God when this UPC church was destroyed by a volcano and earthquake? Why didn't God listen to the prayers of these saints?



http://www.apostolicnews.org/2010/06...-in-guatemala/

Why is this pastor suffering the destruction of his own home?



Like someone else said before, your posts just sound like the self justification of Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar. You ought to consider the rebuke they received at the hands of God, then maybe you'd seek the prayers of the surviving family members of those who were killed on the highway recently.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

From reading this thread and reading Esther's testimony, it seems that some forget that serving God or even having loved ones that serve God can often be beneficial.


Sure it is unbelievably tragic that the Parker, Co family was killed. We don't know their salvation status. We don't know if they had someone somewhere literally praying for their safe return.

We do know that Esther prayed, God spared her family members and some other family died instead.


It appears to me that Esther's family was spared because of prayer.

It was never the will of God for Esther's family or that family from Parker to die. However, Esther's family was covered by prayer and faith in Jesus Christ.


No need to criticize Esther over God's goodness to her extended family.

Just "criticizing" the sloppy work of Esther's "god."

[Light]

Originally Posted by Esther

I figure it was a suicide mission and/or terrorist act. Probably will really never know.

I don't know if the Hummer would cause there to be an explosion or not.

Very sad situation for all involved, that I do know.

Their coming to get you, their coming to get you!

Almost every article said the man was drunk, no mention of suicide or the big bad terrorists.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Yes, why don't you do that, Pel. Make sure you tell them about Esther's niece and how Esther had an evil foreboding about this trip her niece was taking and prayed for their safe travel. And how Esther's prayers were answered by God. Obviously the people in that church all need to repent.

Okay. Why don't you go down there during the funeral and do just that.

Also, where were you when Bro. Jesse Williams and James Kilgore had to fill in for Brother Urshan at General Conference? Exactly one year before, Bro. Urshan had called his daughter up onto the platform during his annual address and had her testify of her "healing" from cancer.

Exactly one year later he was absent from GC and at her bedside where she lay dying of cancer. She would die before the Conference ended. Don't you think God was sending a message to you and others of your ilk? If you are silent about this incident I will assume that you are frightened of the truth.

Can we expect to see you in Houston this fall rubbing everyone's nose in the fact that God apparently doesn't answer the prayers of Oneness people, and that God will even kill the family members of prominent Oneness leaders to make this point during a General Conference?

Or is there some other explanation for these events?