Are Trinitarians Saved?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Sam

there is no single orthodox view of the trinity
just like there is no single orthodox view of oneness.

Yet, there is, one is the Roman Catholic view, and the other is the Eastern Orthodox view only differing on the substance of Christ. Yet, the Roman Catholic viewed was borrowed by the Protestant Refromation churches.

Originally Posted by Sam

We all just make silly little pronouncements in serious theological tones
that contradict each other and agree with one another at the same time.

Silly? Jesus said it was given to His apostles to know the mystery of the Kingdom, and Paul continually told his chruches that he was opening up the mystery to them. Now here we are in 2010 and its back to the mystery?
That is more of American Churchism that takes one verse and preaches for hour, and then takes buckets and pass them around to the people to fill their coffers. What you believe Brother Ellis, sounds more like the Roman Catholics who wanted to keep the Word of God out of the hands of the people. While not doing it physically, it is done another way by "telling" the people that theology and doctrine doeesn't really matter.


Good grief.

[allstate1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens would agree with you and therefore they say that it makes their arguments stronger against a God and a afterlife. Yet, that is why you have Bible and the history around it. A student of the word is able to search out the scriptures and the history to be able to come to the right conclusion. Study and prayer and being led by the Spirit of Truth will lead a Bible student into all Truth.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

So are you telling me if someone lets say a good ole Southern Baptist boy has obeyed Acts 2:38 and is now looking into the Oneness doctrine but has not yet full understood it or believed it yet is lost??!!

[allstate1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Yet, there is, one is the Roman Catholic view, and the other is the Eastern Orthodox view only differing on the substance of Christ. Yet, the Roman Catholic viewed was borrowed by the Protestant Refromation churches.



Silly? Jesus said it was given to His apostles to know the mystery of the Kingdom, and Paul continually told his chruches that he was opening up the mystery to them. Now here we are in 2010 and its back to the mystery?
That is more of American Churchism that takes one verse and preaches for hour, and then takes buckets and pass them around to the people to fill their coffers. What you believe Brother Ellis, sounds more like the Roman Catholics who wanted to keep the Word of God out of the hands of the people. While not doing it physically, it is done another way by "telling" the people that theology and doctrine doeesn't really matter.


Good grief.

EB you have contradicted yourself!! You just said Jesus said it was given to the Apostles to know the mystery!! So are you adding to Jesus words and saying it is for the saints to know also?? Or saying since Paul told his churches we was opening up the mystery that WE MUST KNOW IT TO BE SAVED?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by allstate1

@EB The text in 2Tim 2 is Paul writing to Timothy who I believe was like a modern day Pastor! And Paul is telling Timothy and the workers of his church they should study!! I am not against study of theology but you are saying it is a requirment to salvation! If so what is the level one should achieve?? A doctorate, masters ..... AM I not understanding you?? AS for as Paul he did write letters to churchs and A lot of what he said is not found anywhere else in scripture! Thats what I meant by that statement! Paul use a lot of it is better to___ than to ____ !! e.g. It is better to marry than to burn. Is the burning a sin??

I guess burning is a sin, or else Paul wouldn't instructed those to get married.

Paul and Jesus preached with handicaps, Paul murdered people in the church prior to being converted. Jesus was considered by all who didn't have the angel notify them that Jesus was the Messiah, to be illegitimate born before consumation of the vows. If they both were preaching something outside the Torah and the prophets they would of been called on it. Yet, that wasn't happening. Paul and Jesus aand the rest of the apostles taught within the context of the Jewish canon. If Paul was instructing the young Evangelist to study, there must of been a good reason to do so, and therefore 1st Timothy and 2nd Timothy explain that. Also, if you went to school and the teacher told you that you didn't need math, you would be lacking a skill required for your future. Paul adressed the Corinthain church memebers and told them that he would of told them spiritual things but had to speak to them as new converts because they were carnal, and couldn't understand his teachings.
What I'm seeing in America is that the people are too busy and distracted and therefore need Christianity to microwavable and pop in and out the oven. Christianity in this country is in bad shape. Sad thing is the people love to have it so.

[Joey Boneski]

Matthew 7

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

[allstate1]

@EB You still did not answer my question! When has one studied enough to be saved? If you are in a honest process of study but have not got a handle on it or you lost? ALso, what is burning if it is a sin ?? Did Paul not burn? HE was never married! HE also says It is better to be like him and not marry!! So if you say it is a sin to burn b/c of the it is better to_______ than to ____ it is a sin to marry!!!!!!

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Yet, there is, one is the Roman Catholic view, and the other is the Eastern Orthodox view only differing on the substance of Christ. Yet, the Roman Catholic viewed was borrowed by the Protestant Refromation churches.



Silly? Jesus said it was given to His apostles to know the mystery of the Kingdom, and Paul continually told his chruches that he was opening up the mystery to them. Now here we are in 2010 and its back to the mystery?
That is more of American Churchism that takes one verse and preaches for hour, and then takes buckets and pass them around to the people to fill their coffers. What you believe Brother Ellis, sounds more like the Roman Catholics who wanted to keep the Word of God out of the hands of the people. While not doing it physically, it is done another way by "telling" the people that theology and doctrine doeesn't really matter.


Good grief.

There are many forms of trinitarianism. This is even affirmed by trinitarian themselves. There are also many forms of oneness. I don't think any two people on this forum agree on what oneness is and most all claim to be oneness.

[Joey Boneski]

Originally Posted by jfrog

There are many forms of trinitarianism. This is even affirmed by trinitarian themselves. There are also many forms of oneness. I don't think any two people on this forum agree on what oneness is and most all claim to be oneness.

That would be a debate that would go on beyond our lifetime if we even attempted it. But simply the oneness or trinitarian baptism I feel is a salvation issue. Peter, being full of the Holy Ghost, on the day of pentecost, instructed the crowd to be baptized in Jesus name. He was answering the question of what must we do. Jesus spoke the words of baptizing in the name(singular) of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost....but to those who had a revelation of who he was. If i believe that whole heartedly, which I do, would I be compromising to say otherwise or not defend that which I believe is truth? Beyond that the rest is works which the Bible does say we will be judged by in Revelation. The works issue is very debatable as we only know as individuals what God has moved on us to do. But as an issue of salvation there is only one truth.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Joey Boneski

That would be a debate that would go on beyond our lifetime if we even attempted it. But simply the oneness or trinitarian baptism I feel is a salvation issue. Peter, being full of the Holy Ghost, on the day of pentecost, instructed the crowd to be baptized in Jesus name. He was answering the question of what must we do. Jesus spoke the words of baptizing in the name(singular) of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost....but to those who had a revelation of who he was. If i believe that whole heartedly, which I do, would I be compromising to say otherwise or not defend that which I believe is truth? Beyond that the rest is works which the Bible does say we will be judged by in Revelation. The works issue is very debatable as we only know as individuals what God has moved on us to do. But as an issue of salvation there is only one truth.

Then why in Acts is there a record of them simply baptizing only in the name of the Lord with no Jesus attached? (Acts 10:48)

[Joey Boneski]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Then why in Acts is there a record of them simply baptizing only in the name of the Lord with no Jesus attached? (Acts 10:48)

Because of who the Lord is was not debatable at that time...and it is singular.

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.