UPCI

[StillStanding]

I was raised in the UPCI, and I always loved the people there. Although I witnessed a few bad things, it was mostly very good!

Even when I began to question some beliefs, I never questioned the sincerity and dedication to God of the UPCI people. They are part of the body of Christ!

For the last twenty years or so, I have been going a different direction than the UPCI. At first, I could visit and still worship and feel at "home". This past summer, I visited a UPCI campmeeting and felt uncomfortable and out of place. Maybe I just didn't realize it before, but the worship was forced and a big emotional response was expected. It was more cheer-leading than worship! I'm just sayin'..................

[Sam]

Originally Posted by scotty

You didn't answer the question. Show me one place in the bible anyone was ever baptized as you say. Come on TM, several places in scripture describe people being baptized. Show me one that was baptized using the titles.

In Acts 3:6 we have a record of what the Apostle Peter said when he conveyed God's healing to a person. It is recorded that he said, "In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk."

In Acts 16:18 we have the Apostle Paul evicting an evil spirit from a young woman in Jesus' name. It is recorded that he said, "I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her."

We have several references to water baptism in the New Testament and some of these mention baptism in the name/authority of Jesus BUT we do not have any instances where the words spoken at the baptism are recorded like we have records of the words spoken at a healing and exorcism shown above.

We (myself included) assume that the name of Jesus was verbalized at baptism just like it was verbalized at healing and exorcism but we nave NO quotes.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway

... This past summer, I visited a UPCI campmeeting and felt uncomfortable and out of place. Maybe I just didn't realize it before, but the worship was forced and a big emotional response was expected. It was more cheer-leading than worship! I'm just sayin'..................

I think we've all been places where worship was "forced" and people just tried too hard to work up some kind of response. That's certainly not unique to the UPC.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Sam

In Acts 3:6 we have a record of what the Apostle Peter said when he conveyed God's healing to a person. It is recorded that he said, "In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk."

In Acts 16:18 we have the Apostle Paul evicting an evil spirit from a young woman in Jesus' name. It is recorded that he said, "I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her."

We have several references to water baptism in the New Testament and some of these mention baptism in the name/authority of Jesus BUT we do not have any instances where the words spoken at the baptism are recorded like we have records of the words spoken at a healing and exorcism shown above.

We (myself included) assume that the name of Jesus was verbalized at baptism just like it was verbalized at healing and exorcism but we nave NO quotes.

So the they were commanded to baptize in the "name" of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and their response was to do so and other things using Jesus name.

Sounds to me like they had a better understanding of who Jesus was than most.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins;
Acts 2:41
Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.

I wonder if those three thousand were baptized in the titles ?

Acts 8:16
For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 10:48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus

Romans 6:3
Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Using scripture itself, as far as I'm concerned, the burdon of proof lies with those who believe in baptizm in the titles. There is just more scriptural reference to Jesus name than the titles. One would have to really stretch or twist the Word to say otherwise.

[TroubleMaker]

Originally Posted by scotty

You didn't answer the question. Show me one place in the bible anyone was ever baptized as you say. Come on TM, several places in scripture describe people being baptized. Show me one that was baptized using the titles.

This is a very old, very tired argument. But I'll play along.

First, let's look at the list of things that never happened in the bible that take place all the time in "apostolic" church cultures and services.

1) Offerings;

2) Choir singing;

3) Dress codes;

4) Trios, quartets, ensembles, and chorales;

5) Traveling evangelists;

6) Revivals;

7) Sunday services;

8) Any public services, for that matter;

9) "Dressing up for church";

10) Communion with distribution of unleavened bread chips and Smucker's Grape Juice;

11) Conferences;

12) Bibles;

13) Holiness Standards;

14) Pulpits;

15) Platforms or a raised stage for the "performers";

16) Neckties;

17) Organized outreach efforts;

18) Sunday school;

19) Baptistries;

20) Baptisms where someone said, "Upon the confession of your faith, blah, blah, blah, I now baptize you in Jesus' name";

21) Come to think of it, baptisms where anybody said anything;


List of things that did happen in the bible that I've never seen in my lifetime in the church culture or church service:

1) Anyone's shadow that passed over someone and they were healed;

2) The dead raised to life;

3) People that speak in tongues as Acts chapter 2 describes;

4) Bringing in the OT, Lion's Dens;

5) Oceans or seas parting;

6) Giants that are nearly ten feet tall being killed by teenagers;

7) Boats that carry every kind of animal on the earth;

8) Back to the NT, people being killed because they lied;

9) Church leaders being jailed and the walls falling down when the church leaders sing;


My hands are getting tired. I'm sure there are better things to record here, but these are the things that hit me off the top of my head. So we have now verified that there are many things that happened in the bible that none of us have ever seen, as well as many things that are a routine part of our church culture that never happened in the bible.

So try another argument. Like I said at the beginning, your argument is very old and very tired.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by scotty

So the they were commanded to baptize in the "name" of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and their response was to do so and other things using Jesus name.

Sounds to me like they had a better understanding of who Jesus was than most.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins;
Acts 2:41
Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.

I wonder if those three thousand were baptized in the titles ?

Acts 8:16
For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 10:48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus

Romans 6:3
Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Using scripture itself, as far as I'm concerned, the burdon of proof lies with those who believe in baptizm in the titles. There is just more scriptural reference to Jesus name than the titles. One would have to really stretch or twist the Word to say otherwise.

I personally think the name of Jesus should be spoken at baptism BUT even though you've given several references to baptism, there is NO place in our NT where the person is actually quoted at baptism like they are quoted at healing and exorcism.

[n david]

Originally Posted by TroubleMaker

This is a very old, very tired argument. But I'll play along.

First, let's look at the list of things that never happened in the bible that take place all the time in "apostolic" church cultures and services.

1) Offerings;

2) Choir singing;

3) Dress codes;

4) Trios, quartets, ensembles, and chorales;

5) Traveling evangelists;

6) Revivals;

7) Sunday services;

8) Any public services, for that matter;

9) "Dressing up for church";

10) Communion with distribution of unleavened bread chips and Smucker's Grape Juice;

11) Conferences;

12) Bibles;

13) Holiness Standards;

14) Pulpits;

15) Platforms or a raised stage for the "performers";

16) Neckties;

17) Organized outreach efforts;

18) Sunday school;

19) Baptistries;

20) Baptisms where someone said, "Upon the confession of your faith, blah, blah, blah, I now baptize you in Jesus' name";

21) Come to think of it, baptisms where anybody said anything;


List of things that did happen in the bible that I've never seen in my lifetime in the church culture or church service:

1) Anyone's shadow that passed over someone and they were healed;

2) The dead raised to life;

3) People that speak in tongues as Acts chapter 2 describes;

4) Bringing in the OT, Lion's Dens;

5) Oceans or seas parting;

6) Giants that are nearly ten feet tall being killed by teenagers;

7) Boats that carry every kind of animal on the earth;

8) Back to the NT, people being killed because they lied;

9) Church leaders being jailed and the walls falling down when the church leaders sing;


My hands are getting tired. I'm sure there are better things to record here, but these are the things that hit me off the top of my head. So we have now verified that there are many things that happened in the bible that none of us have ever seen, as well as many things that are a routine part of our church culture that never happened in the bible.

So try another argument. Like I said at the beginning, your argument is very old and very tired.

Way to avoid the question. An easier way to answer would've been to admit you don't have one, instead of making a ridiculous list.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by scotty

You didn't answer the question. Show me one place in the bible anyone was ever baptized as you say. Come on TM, several places in scripture describe people being baptized. Show me one that was baptized using the titles.

I will as soon as you show me one place where it says that the words "in the name of Jesus" were audibly said over baptism...

[Sam]

Originally Posted by scotty

You didn't answer the question. Show me one place in the bible anyone was ever baptized as you say. Come on TM, several places in scripture describe people being baptized. Show me one that was baptized using the titles.

Acts 15:28-29 in the AESV (Aramaic English Standard Version):

And concerning baptism, baptise in this manner:
Having first taught all of these things, baptise in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water.
But if you have no living water, baptise in other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm.
But if you have neither, pour water three times upon the head in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Sam

Acts 15:28-29 in the AESV (Aramaic English Standard Version):

And concerning baptism, baptise in this manner:
Having first taught all of these things, baptise in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water.
But if you have no living water, baptise in other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm.
But if you have neither, pour water three times upon the head in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

I can't find any information on that bible sam. I can't even find an online rendition of it.