Rick Warren Statement

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by notofworks

"The church that is content with not growing is saying to the rest of the world “ 'You can go to hell.' ” –Rick Warren






.

That is a good saying but from my perspective MOST "church growth" is really installing a coffee shop and attracting church members from other established churches. Yes a little TIC, but is church growing 100% souls that are not Christians. I don't think so. Many are just wanting to go to a cooler church from their smaller churches

[Scott Hutchinson]

See where I live everybody claims to be a Christian,and alot people do have their names on church roles,who do not live a Christian lifestyle.Now I not talking about Pentecostal standards either,but there are those in this area who live lifestlyes that are not Christian in nature.

I have known people who are involved in fornication and adultery and such just ask them boy they'll tell that are saved and Christian because their name is on a church roll.
A movement that teaches eternal security is big in this part of the country,they have churches on just about every corner.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by ChTatum

The presence of God in our services (and no, we don't have enough of it) will bring people in.

Good post, Bro. Scott.

I disagree.

To begin with evangelism in the bible was always OUT THERE. Evangelism was not about inviting your friends and hoping for a move of the Holy Ghost and for the preacher to be "on"....in fact I think that is one reason why we don't have larger church growth.

Early Pentecostals in the last century regularly had street meetings where they witnessed, did a little preaching, sang some songs and passed out tracts.

I've been in church meetings with the move of the Spirit of God and visitors and seen many receive the Spirit (supposedly) but never return or just not receive anything at all and not return.

The Presence of God is important and actually more important to believers. Like in Acts 4 or 5 when they were refilled with the Spirit, it gave them more boldness, increased their faith. that is what the church needs and that is what the gifts are for mostly and what a church meeting is for mostly...so we can be empowered to go out and be witnesses

[Scott Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That is a good saying but from my perspective MOST "church growth" is really installing a coffee shop and attracting church members from other established churches. Yes a little TIC, but is church growing 100% souls that are not Christians. I don't think so. Many are just wanting to go to a cooler church from their smaller churches

See that is want I was trying to aim for this morning,but I feel you have expressed it very well.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I disagree.

To begin with evangelism in the bible was always OUT THERE. Evangelism was not about inviting your friends and hoping for a move of the Holy Ghost and for the preacher to be "on"....in fact I think that is one reason why we don't have larger church growth.

Early Pentecostals in the last century regularly had street meetings where they witnessed, did a little preaching, sang some songs and passed out tracts.

I've been in church meetings with the move of the Spirit of God and visitors and seen many receive the Spirit (supposedly) but never return or just not receive anything at all and not return.

The Presence of God is important and actually more important to believers. Like in Acts 4 or 5 when they were refilled with the Spirit, it gave them more boldness, increased their faith. that is what the church needs and that is what the gifts are for mostly and what a church meeting is for mostly...so we can be empowered to go out and be witnesses

This is true as well and we do have a comission to fulfill.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That is a good saying but from my perspective MOST "church growth" is really installing a coffee shop and attracting church members from other established churches. Yes a little TIC, but is church growing 100% souls that are not Christians. I don't think so. Many are just wanting to go to a cooler church from their smaller churches

Well, from MY perspective, our medium size church lost a lot of members the last couple of years by established people leaving for SMALLER churches; wanting to follow the spooky spiritual crowd. Our current big growth surge has come almost completely from totally "unchurched" people from our surrounding neighborhoods.

And we don't have a coffee shop. (we do have a cafe, but it is in our youth facility and most of our visitors know nothing about it.)

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

Churches can have numbers,but you just have numbers and not true Christians what do you have ? A big social club or something.

Originally Posted by notofworks

Oh baloney. Let's ask a question here.....of the 40,000 members of Saddleback (the church Rick Warren founded and pastors), what's your wild guess of the percentage of "True Christians" among the 40,000. Just give a wild guess. Don't do the "I could never judge" malarkey, because you've pretty much already done that by insinuating many in his crowd may not be "true Christians." So go ahead...what percentage? Just guess.

Originally Posted by Lacey

I understood what you meant Bro Scott....and, sorry NOW, but it's NOT baloney! Too many churches are just that.......social clubs, with just a hint of Jesus thrown in for good measure so they can call it church. Sad!

Yeah, alot of churches are 'growing' or as I heard one preacher say........"swelling", from infection and disease. That type of growth is certainly not good.

Or in other words too many churchs are only interested in growing bigger, getting fatter and installing a coffee shop?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

Well, from MY perspective, our medium size church lost a lot of members the last couple of years by established people leaving for SMALLER churches; wanting to follow the spooky spiritual crowd. Our current big growth surge has come almost completely from totally "unchurched" people from our surrounding neighborhoods.

And we don't have a coffee shop. (we do have a cafe, but it is in our youth facility and most of our visitors know nothing about it.)

Or instead of a coffee Shop you can have your own jack in the box

Yes church "growth" can be many things, besides winning sinners to the Lord

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Or instead of a coffee Shop you can have your own jack in the box

Yes church "growth" can be many things, besides winning sinners to the Lord

???? Are you implying that we are not winning souls? That is quite an accusation, even for you.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

???? Are you implying that we are not winning souls? That is quite an accusation, even for you.

huh?