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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #71  
Old 04-24-2007, 11:01 AM
josh josh is offline
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Originally Posted by revrandy View Post
It seems at least where I'm from many of the more conservative churches dress to the nines... and most who visit come away stating something about a fashion show.
On another forum a choir was mentioned not about what they sang (which was good) but how they were dressed. And from my experiance by visiting the church....acceptance and fashion seem to hold hands...

It starts from the top.... another conservative church near us the Bishops Married Daughter who's husband will be Pastor has a Monthly Clothing allowance from the church that is extremely generous.

Most of the more conservative churches seem to be alot about fashion and dress... They may preach modesty in dress but seem to excuse moderation in dress...maybe that's an out...

I did find it interesting in one church that is considered to be Ultra-Conservative that the Pastor's wife while "holy" in dress wore a very large expressive hat in every service that seemed to say "I may dress by the standard but at least I can wear Hats"....

I don't know that it matters.... but when folks come to visit I would think most would rather walk away saying that was one of the nicest church's they had been too... and not saying.. "what a fashion show"...

These churches while "Holy" seem to be seperated by fashion... and your accepted by the way you are dressed...

It's definately NOT right...

anybody else chime in??
You been to Gen Conf lately?

Your description may apply to churches that are conservative from a general Protestant spectrum, but in the UPC I think your view is based on a few certain churches around you.
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  #72  
Old 04-24-2007, 11:02 AM
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revrandy revrandy is offline
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Originally Posted by josh View Post
You been to Gen Conf lately?

Your description may apply to churches that are conservative from a general Protestant spectrum, but in the UPC I think your view is based on a few certain churches around you.
I did say..at least where I'm from.. and yes... GC seems to be very fashionable.. of late...
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  #73  
Old 04-24-2007, 11:04 AM
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warrior81680 warrior81680 is offline
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Originally Posted by keith4him View Post
Hey I liked to really dress nice, I wore very nice suits, still do on occasion. In my closet I have Armani, have had Brioni, Boss. Versace ties, Format Ties (the best ever) I have Johnston and Murphy before they became mall stores etc.

But my desire to reach the common man and relate to him became greater than fitting in among my brethren and my tradition that I was raised in.

It would be good for all to read how Hudson Taylor of the famed China Inland Mission reached the masses, but of course many on here will discount him because he wasn't saved, didn't have truth, the old mantra.

He shaved his head, grew a pony tail and learned the language, left the Western mission cites and lived with the Chinese people, the result when the Western Mission agencies with their American idealism, standards of living and conduct could only convince a few to be won to the Lord, Hudson won thousands, you should read the blistering criticism that the other missionaries said about him.

This radical incarnational mindset we must capture again if we are to make an impact in our world.

The old mantra--"gotta be like 'em to win 'em".

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  #74  
Old 04-24-2007, 11:19 AM
Whole Hearted Whole Hearted is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
This casual look that the Charismatics are pushing looking like they are going to golf rather than to church turns me off. It is as false as they are. Like the presidental canidates running around with flannel shirts and jeans driving a pickup and eating at Wendy's and don't know how to order. It is all an act.
AMEN BROTHER
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  #75  
Old 04-24-2007, 11:20 AM
Whole Hearted Whole Hearted is offline
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Originally Posted by Coonskinner View Post
I am confused.

I thought conservative Apostolic women were blue denim whales who are always slopped out in jean skirts and Keds tennis shoes.

Which is it?

I guess it just depends on which tactic the critics want to use on a given day to try and take shots at Apostolic churches.
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  #76  
Old 04-24-2007, 11:36 AM
Whole Hearted Whole Hearted is offline
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Well we don't spend alot of money on clothes. My wife can find those bargains. But we and the church people dress nice for church. We are way out in the country and some of the men may be wearing boots, but they are always nicely dress. All the men on the platform wear at least dress pants, dress shirt and tie. Our people come dressed for church.

My family dress nice. My wife can sew if need be. But yet very little is spent on cloths. She find good stuff at resale shops, some times with the tags still on them. My wife and daughter wear hats and all. Some would say we dress to the nines, but we keep the right attitude. I don't believe in spending alot on cloths or buying costly array (clothes). But one can look nice and not do that. Example Sunday night my daughter had on a nice black suit ($25.00 at a wholesale shop in Houston) a black hat my wife found marked down to $10.00 and nice black shop found at an outlet store for $15.00. I know preacher who spend more that this whole outfit cost for one necktie.

One can look real nice and not spend alot of money or have a better that you attitude. I have seen people dressed very casual who had a better that you attitude.
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  #77  
Old 04-24-2007, 11:45 AM
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Pastor Keith Pastor Keith is offline
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Originally Posted by warrior81680 View Post
The old mantra--"gotta be like 'em to win 'em".

Become all things to all men, that I might when some! Let this mind be in you that was also in Christ Jesus....
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  #78  
Old 04-24-2007, 12:01 PM
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warrior81680 warrior81680 is offline
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Originally Posted by keith4him View Post
Become all things to all men, that I might when some! Let this mind be in you that was also in Christ Jesus....
I appreciate the thought here, Keith, but Jesus did NOT become LIKE the people He was winning.

This is out of context.
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  #79  
Old 04-24-2007, 12:07 PM
Whole Hearted Whole Hearted is offline
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Originally Posted by warrior81680 View Post
I appreciate the thought here, Keith, but Jesus did NOT become LIKE the people He was winning.This is out of context.
AMEN
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  #80  
Old 04-24-2007, 12:13 PM
Newman Newman is offline
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Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
I think sometimes that divide has to do with peoples perspectives of God. Conservatives who tend to look at God in terms of judgement, rules, wrath, etc are the ones who usually dress to the nines and sometimes the result is a fashion show intimidating to visitors.

Moderates and libs tend to look at God more as a friend, father figure, etc. As a more intimate figure and thus feel more comfortable dressing casually when worshipping Him at church.

Some of those folks carry it to an extreme and you end up with preachers who think if they are not preaching in a Hawaiian shirt that doesn't tuck in you are not right.
Certainly there is some disconnect in condemning limited jewelry but embracing costly array. But I do believe that both miss the point that Paul was making. It's not about what you wear on the outside that matters most but the inside that counts. And so I enter this discussion believing that both jewelry and costly array may be ok given the right circumstances.

Nevertheless, I have got to admit that I am conflicted by the whole thing.

Dressing with Distinction
I do believe that the more "separated" from the fashions of the world; the more likely there will be a totally different culture in the church that occurs naturally as the body of believers creates their own society and ways to be legitimately noticed and recognized as distinctive from the uniform otherwise worn.

Is this all bad? Heavens no. Its refreshing to walk into the House of God and see good and wonderful people who are there to worship in their finest. It is so Norman Rockwell to walk into church as a family with one's Sunday attire that includes Rothchild coats for little girls and suits and ties for boys.

It is easy to bring your children up to live "above" the crowd at school when there is something wonderfully connected going on at church. It is like raising up royalty and isn't that what we are doing?

Toll on Visitors
HOWEVER....it is hard on visitors. And makes the visiting children stick out like sore thumbs. For some it works and when they come to Christ they can't wait to put on new clothes that signal they are part of that particular church body.

But for others; there is a discomfort that they can't get past. They won't be caught dead in a suit; even for their funeral.

And so we weigh traditional church clothes that promote a most wonderful feeling for those that wear them against the backdrop of welcoming others to place where they too can worship God without being embarrased by what they have to come to church in. There are no easy answers....

Message to Our Children
But I do believe we should cut the Conservatives slack who choose to worship God in their finest. It certainly sends a message to their children that isn't all bad.

The House of God is special as you are. No need to adapt to the lack of morality and lack of reverence of this world. Amen?
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