If I'm Out Of Order...

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

The Problem of Pain, doesn't deal with matters of the heart. It is theological/philosophical. Mere Christianity matters of the heart?

Segraves has written books that he has completely abandoned as his education has progressed. He is not afraid to say I was wrong. DB goes to the Scripture intent on validating a point of view, thus the inability to say "Oops I messed that one up." I would think that writing theological books with no education and then getting an education would change your views. If not your arrogance has blocked your ability to learn.

Maybe he doesn't think he's wrong. I haven't seen or heard him change anything. So, you want him to change to fit your views? Why does he have to change for anyone if he still believes what he believes?

The Problem of Pain is what it is - written about pain and suffering. Even written from a theological standpoint, it touches the matters of the heart - personal suffering.

It is not the same, IMO, as what Bernard wrote about, i.e., Oneness, New Birth, Doctrines of the Bible, Justification and the Holy Spirit, etc.

I have never read anything Bernard has written that sounded arrogant. His articles in The Sentinel were always to the point, concise and written in love. Sorry, but he is a good man and he is intelligent. If you don't know him personally, then you are judging a man you don't really know.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Has Bernard ever addressed the Holy Hair issue yet (not including the one or two Clintonesque-type short non-answers I have read from him)?

I've never heard him address it other than it is our glory and shows a sign of submission to authority. He's never said anything, thus far, that I know of about having special power with God over your household, community or husband.

If he did, I would not be in agreement - at all.

[KWSS1976]

Yea I got problems with this part....As far as the hair I am sorry but that just as crazy as the magic hair...

sign of submission to authority

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Yea I got problems with this part....As far as the hair I am sorry but that just as crazy as the magic hair...

sign of submission to authority

I believe that view is taken and understood from I Cor 11:5 "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven."

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Maybe he doesn't think he's wrong. I haven't seen or heard him change anything. So, you want him to change to fit your views? Why does he have to change for anyone if he still believes what he believes?

The Problem of Pain is what it is - written about pain and suffering. Even written from a theological standpoint, it touches the matters of the heart - personal suffering.

It is not the same, IMO, as what Bernard wrote about, i.e., Oneness, New Birth, Doctrines of the Bible, Justification and the Holy Spirit, etc.

I have never read anything Bernard has written that sounded arrogant. His articles in The Sentinel were always to the point, concise and written in love. Sorry, but he is a good man and he is intelligent. If you don't know him personally, then you are judging a man you don't really know.

Have you read The Problem of Pain? I am guessing the answer is, "no." It has nothing to do with personal pain.

I guess it depends, I can judge his writing by, well, his writing. Which is what I have done. It is arrogant for him to complain that Trinitarians don't take Oneness seriously and then write "trinity" with a lower case "t." It is a deliberate slap in the face and it smacks of arrogance.

He want's it both ways. He wants to be accepted as mainstream while he insults mainstream Christianity.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Have you read The Problem of Pain? I am guessing the answer is, "no." It has nothing to do with personal pain.

I read about it here: http://www.catholiceducation.org/art...cs/ap0032.html - "In the book Lewis considers the problem of suffering from a purely theoretical standpoint." That sounds like personal pain to me.

I didn't view it on the same lines of a doctrinal stance as Bernard's books, but it does sound very interesting. I'll have to read it! I'll check it out at the Library. I never purchase a book unless I want to keep it in my library.

I guess it depends, I can judge his writing by, well, his writing. Which is what I have done. It is arrogant for him to complain that Trinitarians don't take Oneness seriously and then write "trinity" with a lower case "t." It is a deliberate slap in the face and it smacks of arrogance.

He want's it both ways. He wants to be accepted as mainstream while he insults mainstream Christianity.

I viewed a debate where the Trinitarian came across, IMO, as arrogant and said that he and Bernard do NOT worship the same God. When it was Bernard's turn, he got up and stated that they do, indeed, worship the same God - they just have a different understanding. After listening to the eleven clips - I agree with Bernard. Although, I agreed with him before I listened to them. I have Baptists in my family, so I know what that is about. Bernard was also very gracious, patient and kind. I didn't see him as arrogant at all. Perhaps if I was in attendance, I may have had another opinion after viewing the body language, but I wasn't, so I'm going by what I did view.

I have never seen Bernard acting arrogant and I can wager to say that I have been around him more than you have. lol He has stopped to talk with us in a crowd when he was busy and getting ready to speak. He didn't have to do that.

Don't try to tell me that a Trinitarian, in debate, is going to be the epitome of kindness. I've seen enough to know that when men get together and disagree - well - they are just men! LOL! Seen it here on this forum.

I don't believe he wants to be accepted into the mainstream at all. How could he when he is emphatically writing, preaching and teaching the Oneness of God? That doesn't make any sense, Baron. My Baptist relatives have been much more insulting to me than I would have ever thought to be to them and that's a fact.

I hope this post doesn't sound like I'm yelling at you. LOL! Wouldn't I put my words in all caps if I was? LOL!

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I read about it here: http://www.catholiceducation.org/art...cs/ap0032.html - "In the book Lewis considers the problem of suffering from a purely theoretical standpoint." That sounds like personal pain to me.

I didn't view it on the same lines of a doctrinal stance as Bernard's books, but it does sound very interesting. I'll have to read it! I'll check it out at the Library. I never purchase a book unless I want to keep it in my library.


I viewed a debate where the Trinitarian came across, IMO, as arrogant and said that he and Bernard do NOT worship the same God. When it was Bernard's turn, he got up and stated that they do, indeed, worship the same God - they just have a different understanding. After listening to the eleven clips - I agree with Bernard. Although, I agreed with him before I listened to them. I have Baptists in my family, so I know what that is about. Bernard was also very gracious, patient and kind. I didn't see him as arrogant at all. Perhaps if I was in attendance, I may have had another opinion after viewing the body language, but I wasn't, so I'm going by what I did view.

I have never seen Bernard acting arrogant and I can wager to say that I have been around him more than you have. lol He has stopped to talk with us in a crowd when he was busy and getting ready to speak. He didn't have to do that.

Don't try to tell me that a Trinitarian, in debate, is going to be the epitome of kindness. I've seen enough to know that when men get together and disagree - well - they are just men! LOL! Seen it here on this forum.

I don't believe he wants to be accepted into the mainstream at all. How could he when he is emphatically writing, preaching and teaching the Oneness of God? That doesn't make any sense, Baron. My Baptist relatives have been much more insulting to me than I would have ever thought to be to them and that's a fact.

I hope this post doesn't sound like I'm yelling at you. LOL! Wouldn't I put my words in all caps if I was? LOL!

Bernard also says that Muslims worship the God of the Bible, but he certainly doesn't view them as saved. It is nothing but double speak. He does not consider them saved, but he uses this we worship the same God to play the politician. I have more respect for an Epley who is at least honest with his wrong views.

It isn't how we are treated that is at issue. He lists as positive being included in books with mainstream Christianity while at the same time saying they are not saved. Why would you want to be included with people you don't think are saved?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Bernard also says that Muslims worship the God of the Bible, but he certainly doesn't view them as saved. It is nothing but double speak. He does not consider them saved, but he uses this we worship the same God to play the politician. I have more respect for an Epley who is at least honest with his wrong views.

Baron,
I've studied two sides of the Muslim worship of God and I'm not sure that I don't think they are worshiping God. They are just doing it in error. I don't consider them saved and I don't consider someone that is a true Trinitarian to be saved.

I believe that many Trinitarians do believe in one God, they just believe it in a way that is skewed, IMO. The guy that debated Bernard didn't make logical sense. Actually, how it came across to me was a carnal explanation and Bernard came across as having spiritual understanding.

Brother Bernard and I've heard him say this - If a Trinitarian says that they will see Jesus sitting on the throne in heaven, then they are not really a Trinitarian.

I've only met very few that didn't believe that Jesus was manifest in the flesh. That is a true diehard Trinitarian, IMO. I don't think they can preach that and be saved. Isn't that denying who God is?

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Baron,
I've studied two sides of the Muslim worship of God and I'm not sure that I don't think they are worshiping God. They are just doing it in error. I don't consider them saved and I don't consider someone that is a true Trinitarian to be saved.

I believe that many Trinitarians do believe in one God, they just believe it in a way that is skewed, IMO. The guy that debated Bernard didn't make logical sense. Actually, how it came across to me was a carnal explanation and Bernard came across as having spiritual understanding.

Brother Bernard and I've heard him say this - If a Trinitarian says that they will see Jesus sitting on the throne in heaven, then they are not really a Trinitarian.

I've only met very few that didn't believe that Jesus was manifest in the flesh. That is a true diehard Trinitarian, IMO. I don't think they can preach that and be saved. Isn't that denying who God is?

My family was split. My mother's grandmother was baptized in Jesus name and attended the pentecostal church in the town where they lived. It eventually became A of G. My Dads family was Oneness, I think I have a pretty good handle on both views. The misconception of what Trinitarians believe is astounding. I have NEVER heard a Trinitarian say Jesus was not God manifest in the flesh. Misconceptions go the other way as well but that's a different topic. Trintarians are saved, they have placed saving faith in the work of Christ.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

My family was split. My mother's grandmother was baptized in Jesus name and attended the pentecostal church in the town where they lived. It eventually became A of G. My Dads family was Oneness, I think I have a pretty good handle on both views. The misconception of what Trinitarians believe is astounding. I have NEVER heard a Trinitarian say Jesus was not God manifest in the flesh. Misconceptions go the other way as well but that's a different topic. Trintarians are saved, they have placed saving faith in the work of Christ.

I was going to say that my husband's mother didn't believe that Jesus was manifest in the flesh, but I'm not sure. Sometimes she sounded like she believed it and other times she didn't. That's what is a bit confusing in the terminology.

As a child in the Catholic Church, I thought that Jesus and God were two separate people. When I moved out of the house and into my first apartment at 18 years of age, I lay on my bed one night and talked to Jesus, because I was afraid of God. LOL! I said, "I hope you don't mind me talking to you like a regular person, because I need someone to talk to." I was afraid I was going to be in trouble for not saying my Hail Mary's and Our Father! LOL!

I believe Romans when it says - Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

I believe you cannot be saved without His Spirit dwelling in you. I don't care who you are or what you believe. It's in the Word of God.

One thing I don't do is view people and their experiences or my experiences and then make that fit into my theology or belief system. I take the Word for what it commands regardless of how I feel about a person. The Bible says they must be filled or they are none of His.