Collateral Damage

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Always back to standards. LOL.

I know.

It wasn't me who started it, Aunty.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Renda,

We could go round and around this mulberry bush for a long time.

My wife and I don't wear rings.

Our saints don't wear them either.

I have never told anyone they would go to hell for wearing them; I have never asked a soul to take their ring off.

When I teach on modesty, I teach that, in my opinion, the best application and the safest application of the Scripture is to not wear gold. I know that God isn't going to be displeased when I don't wear it.

I guess our folks respect me enough that they comply without getting major pressure from me.

I know and I guess I just wish we could live in that perfect world where we could agree on the basic doctrinal beliefs that are heaven and hell and leave the other to each individual.

It does sound like you do a good job of that! Just wish everyone could - - I know God can't approve of all the fussing and fighting over these small issues.

I'd think he would be tickled pink to have everyone have a personal walk with him and talk with him daily and be happy being a Christian and feeling the burden to save souls that don't know him. Guess I just water down being a Christian too much.

[revrandy]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Renda,

We could go round and around this mulberry bush for a long time.

My wife and I don't wear rings.

Our saints don't wear them either.

I have never told anyone they would go to hell for wearing them; I have never asked a soul to take their ring off.

When I teach on modesty, I teach that, in my opinion, the best application and the safest application of the Scripture is to not wear gold. I know that God isn't going to be displeased when I don't wear it.

I guess our folks respect me enough that they comply without getting major pressure from me.

I have been blessed in my ministry thus far in that dealing with rebellion against what I teach has really never been much of an issue.

Most folks I've seen and met generally like what they see and hear and will follow the example set before them.. many times a Pastor doesn't say anything at all... but just teaches the Word...

There are generally a small percentage that won't tho.. but from my experiance it's a small percent..

[originalsecretplace]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

James said, "My brethren, be not many masters, for such chall receive the greater condemnation."

I believe the word means teachers there.

The rest of the scripture:

For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same [is] a perfect man, [and] able also to bridle the whole body.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Always back to standards. LOL.

That really is my whole point - - - why can't it NOT be.......aunty.

[originalsecretplace]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

I know and I guess I just wish we could live in that perfect world where we could agree on the basic doctrinal beliefs that are heaven and hell and leave the other to each individual.

It does sound like you do a good job of that! Just wish everyone could - - I know God can't approve of all the fussing and fighting over these small issues.

I'd think he would be tickled pink to have everyone have a personal walk with him and talk with him daily and be happy being a Christian and feeling the burden to save souls that don't know him. Guess I just water down being a Christian too much.

Exactly... What is the greater principle/application we are to follow?

Peace and unity? Or I'm right and your wrong because I apply a principle differently that you do?

If I remember correctly there are two commandments Love God and Love your Brother. And you can't hate your brother and love God. Hating your brother would be rejecting and offending him based on your personal application of scripture.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

The real issue is not why the man wants a license. The real issue is that he cannot receive it because of some man's corn cob (tic).

I think that is wrong, and sinful, and that God will judge for it.

Sure the guy could go somehwere else, and he most assuradly doesn't need a license to preach. But to be hindered by the whim and personal vendetta of an overzealous bishop is inexcusable.

Sure it is wrong. But what I am saying is it might be a big issue to you and him, but why worry about it. Just because your friend can not get something should not be the reason your friend should want it. I mean as free moral people we can have about anything we want. If some one wants coffee they can get it, a book, etc.

Lets say this, if you are driving by a starbucks and you noticed they closed early that should not mean that you automatically get mad cause you can not get coffee cause they are closed. You are driving somewhere else doing something else when you notice this, but because they are closed that makes you upset so now you want coffee. When driving by you did not want any coffee in the first place You get my drift?

I would be upset too. However if for some reason I can not get in then no sweat. I had the samething happen to me in the local UPC assembly I was in. It is not the reason I am leaving though. I was the Youth Pastor and wanted to obatin my licsense and the Pastor said that no one other than him and the assistant needed to be licsensed. Guess what? One of the lay people in the church just got his licsense. Does in make me mad? No? Accually it was a good thing.

I say it like this, if you put your hand about an inch away from your eyes so you can not see around them, that is how some people look at their problems. But if you stretch you arm out and you will notice that your hand is not taking up most of your vision now. It seems to fade into the other stuff you see. That is how our problems accually are. God and His plans are the other things you now see and the problems are surrounded by Him now. You feel?

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

We have often discussed the misnomer that a pastor will anwer for all of the parishoners in his church at judgement day. From what I have read on AFF, most of us are in agreement that each individual will stand before God alone. The pastor will not be there to mediate, nor will he be held responsible for those who refused obedience to the Word. His only obligation is to preach the whole counsel of God.

But what if leadership unknowingly causes someone to stumble and fall? What if leadership adds an unnecessary burden that a Christian cannot bear? What if a leader's politics builds his own kingdom instead of God's?

What will happen to those who kill innocents through "friendly fire"? Is a certain amount of collateral damage necessary to win this spiritual war?

If leadership is a problem you have a vote by leaving the assembly and moving on...

[Hoovie]

Since many believe men (husbands) are to be the leaders in the home, do they too carry a larger accountability/liability when it comes to their role?

I would tend to think so. I would also like to think this liability does not extend to jeopardizing his gift of eternal life, except in very extreme cases where there is a willful hurting of his family. But then such a case may speak to his lack of genuinely anyway.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Since (many) believe men are to be the leaders in the home, do they too carry a larger accountability/liability when it comes to their role?

I would tend to think so. I would also like to think this liability does not extend to jepordizing his gift of eternal life, except in very extreme cases where there is a willful hurting of his family. But then in such a case may speak to his lack of genuinity anyway.

I would think so too - good points!