Free will versus reality! - Page 8

clgustaveson · #71 10-17-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

I'm not going to debate with you because you bear resemblance to the behind of a certain farm animal...

-Bro. Alex

I wasn't asking you to debate with me. If your head wasn't as hard is it was you would have noticed before you started insulting me I was simply asking you a question. It's not my fault you continued to make rude comments instead of asking me to teach you what I was I was discussing.

If you don't know what is being discuss then don't try to participate. It's rude to insult someone who started off by asking you a question. Of course my part of the discussion progressed and I apologize but you need to respect when someone is seeking an opinion. The situation progressed when you started insulting my profession.

Sept5SavedTeen · #72 10-17-2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

I wasn't asking you to debate with me. If your head wasn't as hard is it was you would have noticed before you started insulting me I was simply asking you a question. It's not my fault you continued to make rude comments instead of asking me to teach you what I was I was discussing.

If you don't know what is being discuss then don't try to participate. It's rude to insult someone who started off by asking you a question. Of course my part of the discussion progressed and I apologize but you need to respect when someone is seeking an opinion. The situation progressed when you started insulting my profession.

You began with the insults. After considering my words and receiving the infraction, I did rethink whether what I said brought me down to a level I didn't want to go, but then again, I think there are times when a blunt statement like I said ought to be said to try to show a person the way they are acting. I only hope I phrased what I meant to say to you in a gentlemanly enough manner for the ladies who may view our conversation.
I will no longer discuss this on the public forum.

-Bro. Alex

clgustaveson · #73 10-17-2008, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

Fair enough... So what is the question your wanting to ask? If your wanting a 100% pure Arminian answer- I'm your man! If you want to go in psychological rabbit trails, try Freud's Interpretation of Dreams...

-Bro. Alex

This is the first rude reply....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

I'm not going to debate with you because you bear resemblance to the behind of a certain farm animal...

This is the second... Do you really think this showed me I was acting in a bad way? I Don't think so...

Yes, I may have been provoking you to think about something you may not want to consider but I was not being rude to you. I was challenging a philosophical standpoint many christians hold because I am working on a matrix on people's perception of their will to do things.

Let me be clear... I do believe that we are free from God's will and we make our own decision as to whether we should follow the right path or not but as individuals even our desire to believe in God and follow the right path is dictated by a sort of motivation.

Really our mind and psychological conditioning are all factors in how we act.

Truthseeker · #74 10-18-2008, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

I don't see it like that at all. We're born again through the choice we make to be born again. If it is the case that GOD fathers a people who can then chose to fall away, and falling away is worse than having never been in the Truth... well I think you see where I'm going here. It is the will of GOD that we all be saved, and anyone that is made a child of GOD is made a child of GOD "not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:13) And if you want to say will of blood, flesh or man show that we can't chose salvation, I would disagree saying blood shows that Christianity is not a blood-line inherited thing (like Judaism), it is not conjured by the will of our flesh (which always opposes us, and our flesh isn't what reaches out to GOD, it is our spirit that is awakened at conversion) and it is not conjured by the will of man, and that I would gather would be a third party. I can not make you get saved, neither can a preacher or anyone else. You may say, "I am a man, and it can not be my will that saves me" my answer is that just like John 1 was comparing child birth to physical birth, and although mum and dad are the makers of the baby, the baby is the "first person" object in our analogy, and mum and dad are "third person" objects. Will of man is not the man wanting to be saved, but another man trying to make someone else saved, and that does not work. John 1 shows us it is GOD's will for us all to be saved, now we just have to get our will to line up with HIS. I was not so dead before Christ that I could not call out to HIM, I was NOT totally depraved, I had a seed of faith, and it grew and grew and so on.

-Bro. Alex

No one chooses to be born.

Matt 22:14

14 For many are called , but few are chosen.
KJV

1 Cor 1:26

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called :
KJV

1 Peter 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
KJV

What does chosen mean?

Paul was chosen unto God for his purpose. Paul had no will or desire to be a christian til God will was accomplished.

Truthseeker · #75 10-18-2008, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Jesus said "....how often would I have gathered ......YE WOULD NOT" Mt. 23:37 they resisted .
Also ".....and YE WILL NOT COME me, that ye might have life." Jn.5:40
Paul said "...seeing YE put it from you, and judge YOURSELVES unworthy of everlasting life." Acs 13:46

Ps 65:4

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.
KJV

OneAccord · #76 10-18-2008, 07:38 AM

Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

tbpew · #77 10-18-2008, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Ps 65:4

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.
KJV

So does this scripture settle for you [Truthseeker] a witness that God predestinates our individual paths and election?

RevDWW · #78 10-18-2008, 08:00 AM

It's not God's will that any should perish, but it is His will that all come to repentance.

Do all repent? No. It's a personal choice.

Will all be saved? No. It's an individual choice.

clgustaveson · #79 10-19-2008, 02:21 PM

Wow, I guess this turned into a Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate...

thanks for the help guys

nahkoe · #80 10-19-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

Wow, I guess this turned into a Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate...

thanks for the help guys

If anyone else is as confused as I am about what you're really asking, no kidding.

I've felt like I've *almost* understood what you're getting at a few times, and then it just escapes me. It's why I've stayed out of it.