Well, I have been a lifelong member of the UPC and come from people who have sacrificed a lot within the organization. I have also had the opportunity to see and hear things that I will not go into here on this forum. I think that it is very possible to discuss the things that need to be addressed and very irresponsible to not do so. I know that you were being a little fascetious with your analogies, but I will go there with you for a minute. If it were common knowledge amongs Apostolic ranks and others that the org had at one point been divided in strick lines based solely on height, and had several unfortunate incidents and missteps in relation to short people...then I would see the significance of sending a message about our current stance on short people.
In my city, there are over a dozen black UPC pastors and I would wager that there would have been 4 times that amount if not for some problem or another. In cities like New York there are exponentially more...and in the relatively small city of Tampa there are 7 that come to mind immediately.
Given the history, to say that the only reason there is not more diversity in the leadership is because only the white leaders have "earned" the right to leadership on that level is naive and narrow-sighted in my opinion. Now I'll be quiet before I get myself in trouble.
I dont think you should be quiet at all Stew.
those of us who are UPCI and have a very long history in the UPCI, ought to be engaged in a discussion on this.
i say, say on!
There is no question that the UPCI has a poor history (at best) as it relates to race relations.
I hope that is changing. It sure needs to change.
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Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstew
Sounworthy, nobody is suggesting that color be a qualification or that color be the only consideration. .
You'd better read the first post again and no need to answer my post I'm not coming back to this nonsense. Anyone who is voting for Obama can't be reasoned with anyhow.
you'd better read the first post again and no need to answer my post i'm not coming back to this nonsense. Anyone who is voting for obama can't be reasoned with anyhow.
Location: In two of the most beautiful states in the U.S.A
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Re: Blacks and Latinos in the UPCI Question.
There are several Hispanic churches pastored by Hispanic men in the UPC. You would just need to look at the UPC Directory to see the Hispanic names to know how many. Christian Life Center has an associate pastor, Levi Lopez who is very active in the church. With Hispanics many cannot understand English therefore they tend to go to a church where the people and pastor speak Spanish. They are never turned out of our churches but they enjoy being with others who speak their language. That is why many UPC churches have Spanish-speaking daughter works or afternoon service for Hispanics. Our UPC churches have many African-American saints and they are used in various capacities. Many do not want to be preachers or WEC officials but that is their choice. We do not exclude them from official capacities because of color. I worked for WEC 25 years and I know many, many African-American pastors and evangelists. They are always welcomed and treated like our brothers and sisters. Sometimes what people don't understand and do not have first-hand knowledge of tends to make them critical of a subject. I grew up in a UPC church, married a UPC minister (who is deceased), worked at WEC for 25 years, attend UPC church, have many UPC friends (all colors), now married to a UPC saint and am very thankful for my heritage. No, UPC is not perfect but it is a good organization and I do not have a desire to leave it.
there are several hispanic churches pastored by hispanic men in the upc. You would just need to look at the upc directory to see the hispanic names to know how many. Christian life center has an associate pastor, levi lopez who is very active in the church. With hispanics many cannot understand english therefore they tend to go to a church where the people and pastor speak spanish. They are never turned out of our churches but they enjoy being with others who speak their language. That is why many upc churches have spanish-speaking daughter works or afternoon service for hispanics. Our upc churches have many african-american saints and they are used in various capacities. Many do not want to be preachers or wec officials but that is their choice. We do not exclude them from official capacities because of color. I worked for wec 25 years and i know many, many african-american pastors and evangelists. They are always welcomed and treated like our brothers and sisters. Sometimes what people don't understand and do not have first-hand knowledge of tends to make them critical of a subject. I grew up in a upc church, married a upc minister (who is deceased), worked at wec for 25 years, attend upc church, have many upc friends (all colors), now married to a upc saint and am very thankful for my heritage. No, upc is not perfect but it is a good organization and i do not have a desire to leave it.
Sounworthy's wife
you are clearly in denial......wec does not really know all that happens in the local/district constituencies. Take it from one who has been in the upci for over thirty years.
you are clearly in denial......wec does not really know all that happens in the local/district constituencies. Take it from one who has been in the upci for over thirty years.
And that is precisely part of the problem. Insulation from those who pay the bills.
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You'd better read the first post again and no need to answer my post I'm not coming back to this nonsense. Anyone who is voting for Obama can't be reasoned with anyhow.
Well, I have not read any post on here suggesting that unqualified people be used in any capacity. I do however see the opinion that there are many qualified minorities that we should use in some capacities to undo the image that we have obtained in the past. I resist the notion that you would somehow have to sacrifice quality in order to become much more inclusive and representative...many organizations and mega ministries prove that every year. That implication in and of itself smacks of the undercurrent that has existed in some Apostolic movements for too long.
And as far as the voting for Obama, I'm assuming that you have the capacity to have comprehended by now that I have never even hinted that I was voting for Obama and have said numerous times that I am not a democrat...so I'll assume that that was aimed at someone else. I will say for the record for the umpteenth time that refusing to buy into the Republican political game is not an endorsement of the Democrats...I know that that does not compute for some but oh well...
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. However, I do think that it does have a chance to be a bugaboo.
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