Why the antagonism towards Holiness?

[holinesspk]

I think I stirred up Praxeas. lol! I think I recognize you too. You got a bus sized chip on your shoulder bro........

You know I guess I stirred up a lot of people. I think its conviction myself, but hey, it dont matter. Look I am not trying to convince ayone. I was simply posting an observation and my thoughts on it. It y'all wanna get nasty, believe me I could . I used to get suspended all the time for getting involved and even starting those dirty debates where it just got mean. But I am not here for that, so a lot of your posts, I wont respond to, because they are simply there to cause trouble and to be divisive and just to plain argue. If you dont like holiness, fine. No skin off my nose. It does hurt me to see such a blindness as to think standards are not necessary, but its your salvation. And we are to each work out our own salvation with all fear and trembling. I am to busy with mine to concern myself with yours, if that makes sense.

One issue I will deal with though is this. Many of you said, you think I think works will get you to heaven. Yes I do. You can do works to keep you out of Heaven, you can do works to get you in. Now I dont mean works of merit like the Catholics believe. I mean works of faith. I do these works because of my walk with the Lord, not to gain a walk with the Lord. I just want to keep my robe white. Nothing is worth missing Heaven over. I would rather having gone above and beyond, than just guessed and miss it. Why is that such a pot stirrer? Shouldnt all Holy Ghost filled christians feel the same? Or do you have the Holy Ghost? It seems a lot of you think you can just get the Holy Ghost and then live like the Devil and expect to sail in at the Pearly Gates. I dont think so. Straight is the Gate and NARROW is the way. We all like the gate and brag about being Jesus Name people, but we sure dont like the narrow way apparentlly.

I guess my observation remains. I just dont understand the attitude displayed here, that is so antagonistic towards holiness. Is not doing "extra" supposing its extra, worth going to Heaven? When you walk the streets of gold, wont it be worth it? Why must you walk the line and condemn those who try to stay as far from the line as possible? Oh well, I just pray you all are right for your sakes. I really mean that too. Because If you are right, we all are ok and will all sail in Heaven, but if I am right, then Lord have mercy, a lot of you are in trouble. I think many of you have forgotten what the Bible said about how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God.

(1 Peter 4:18 KJV) And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

[holinesspk]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Off the subject? I was

Yes, we are in Brazil...At least I am at this moment my husband is at Brother Holmes campmeeting along with one of our sons... and yes we are holiness people.

Thats really cool. Well why dont you guys just keep coming north and come to our church here in Colorado? lol! I was wanting to come to that camp meeting actually, but couldnt. Do you know the Lambeths very well?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by holinesspk

But.........what if they are salvational issues?!? You completely missed my point. You just fulfilled what I described. Wouldnt you rather play it safe than sorry? Wouldnt you rather Jesus tell you, the standards werent necessary, than to have him tell you they were? Is Heaven worth missing on an assumption? I would rather have done to much, than not enough.

Being a Christian isn't about "playing it safe". It's about living in the powerful freedom Christ died to purchase for you. I believe that the BIBLE provides every salvational standard we need. If it's not in the book...it's not an absolute necessity. Principles of the book can guide us....for example biblical principles lead some to not watch television...while it guides others to only watch things that are not spiritually offensive. But if it's salvational...the book will be clear about it.

If I were going to "play it safe" with my religion...I'd be Bahai...one of their holy books (the Kitáb-i-Íqán) teaches that Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Buddah, and the Bab were all manifestations of God; each bringing a dispensation of truth. They cover all their bases. lol And in a lot of ways....Bahais are a lot more strict than the UPCI seeing that they have deep Islamic roots.

One could go absolutely nuts creating extra-biblical standards to "play it safe". When it comes to any standard or position the question is..."What does the Bible actually say?"

[CC1]

Originally Posted by holinesspk

You know I guess I stirred up a lot of people. I think its conviction myself, but hey, it dont matter.

Here you go folks! The old default conservative discussion point when they have no facts on their side.

Simply accuse those who disagree with them of being "convicted".

Hmmmm.....I imagine if those disagreeing had not responded holinessspk would have declared that he was correct because no one would challenge him.

Then when they do he declares they do so because they are "convicted".

Laughable tactic but expected.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by CC1

Here you go folks! The old default conservative discussion point when they have no facts on their side.

Simply accuse those who disagree with them of being "convicted".

Hmmmm.....I imagine if those disagreeing had not responded holinessspk would have declared that he was correct because no one would challenge him.

Then when they do he declares they do so because they are "convicted".

Laughable tactic but expected.

CC1,

You should create a flow chart for them to use. If the response is X claim they are under conviction, if they respond Y tell them they are bitter, if they respond Z tell them they are a reprobate and can no longer tell what sin is.

Just think they would be like the Dell support guy "Have you plugged the computer in" (in my best indian accent).

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

CC1,

You should create a flow chart for them to use. If the response is X claim they are under conviction, if they respond Y tell them they are bitter, if they respond Z tell them they are a reprobate and can no longer tell what sin is.

Just think they would be like the Dell support guy "Have you plugged the computer in" (in my best indian accent).

ROFL!!!!!

Just when you think it won't happen a conservative will live up to every stereotype.

[deltaguitar]

When I hear comments like, "I just want to keep my robe white," get all the sin out of my life, or it must be conviction, I get a little offended. This is not the gospel. You can't do anything. The best thing you can do is just get out of the way and give God complete control of your life. He will then lead you in perfect love.

God has brought me out of that religious mindset and given me a life of purpose and started the healing that I didn't even know I needed.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by holinesspk

I think I stirred up Praxeas. lol! I think I recognize you too. You got a bus sized chip on your shoulder bro........

You know I guess I stirred up a lot of people. I think its conviction myself, but hey, it dont matter. Look I am not trying to convince ayone. I was simply posting an observation and my thoughts on it. It y'all wanna get nasty, believe me I could . I used to get suspended all the time for getting involved and even starting those dirty debates where it just got mean. But I am not here for that, so a lot of your posts, I wont respond to, because they are simply there to cause trouble and to be divisive and just to plain argue. If you dont like holiness, fine. No skin off my nose. It does hurt me to see such a blindness as to think standards are not necessary, but its your salvation. And we are to each work out our own salvation with all fear and trembling. I am to busy with mine to concern myself with yours, if that makes sense.

You can think it's "conviction" all you want, and it still won't make it true. Also, who really cares about how nasty you can get? Are we supposed to be afraid or something? How many times do we have to tell you that we're not against holiness?

One issue I will deal with though is this. Many of you said, you think I think works will get you to heaven. Yes I do. You can do works to keep you out of Heaven, you can do works to get you in. Now I dont mean works of merit like the Catholics believe. I mean works of faith. I do these works because of my walk with the Lord, not to gain a walk with the Lord. I just want to keep my robe white. Nothing is worth missing Heaven over. I would rather having gone above and beyond, than just guessed and miss it. Why is that such a pot stirrer? Shouldnt all Holy Ghost filled christians feel the same? Or do you have the Holy Ghost? It seems a lot of you think you can just get the Holy Ghost and then live like the Devil and expect to sail in at the Pearly Gates. I dont think so. Straight is the Gate and NARROW is the way. We all like the gate and brag about being Jesus Name people, but we sure dont like the narrow way apparentlly.


FINALLY! The truth comes out. You believe in works based salvation. Good luck with that because it's contrary to scripture. Paul warned about the very thing you believe will "get you saved." You've basically made the cross of none effect.

I guess my observation remains. I just dont understand the attitude displayed here, that is so antagonistic towards holiness. Is not doing "extra" supposing its extra, worth going to Heaven? When you walk the streets of gold, wont it be worth it? Why must you walk the line and condemn those who try to stay as far from the line as possible? Oh well, I just pray you all are right for your sakes. I really mean that too. Because If you are right, we all are ok and will all sail in Heaven, but if I am right, then Lord have mercy, a lot of you are in trouble. I think many of you have forgotten what the Bible said about how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God.


Once again, Jesus paid the price. You will never be able to do enough to earn your way into Heaven, Brother.

(1 Peter 4:18 KJV) And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

My responses are in blue.

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by holinesspk

I think I stirred up Praxeas. lol! I think I recognize you too. You got a bus sized chip on your shoulder bro........

You know I guess I stirred up a lot of people. I think its conviction myself, but hey, it dont matter. Look I am not trying to convince ayone. I was simply posting an observation and my thoughts on it. It y'all wanna get nasty, believe me I could . I used to get suspended all the time for getting involved and even starting those dirty debates where it just got mean.

You are so funny, Bro. I don't think anyone was getting nasty, really. Just displaying some offense to your judgmental and condescending attitude. Looks like if we all don't subscribe to your particular views on dress codes, etc., we're all living like the devil. That's pretty judgmental, Pal. And getting suspended for being mean should not be a bragging point for you. I think Paul said that love is kind. And I'm pretty sure meanness is not a fruit of the Spirit. But as long as you dress like you think you should that's all okay.

Originally Posted by holinesspk

If you dont like holiness, fine. No skin off my nose.

Again, you're confusing holiness with standards. They are not the same thing. And, I so appreciate your heart of compassion for those of us who are lost because we are living like the devil.

Originally Posted by holinesspk

I guess my observation remains. I just dont understand the attitude displayed here, that is so antagonistic towards holiness. Is not doing "extra" supposing its extra, worth going to Heaven?

Again, no antagonism here toward holiness. I am filled with the Holy Ghost, and I seek His face every morning before I leave my house for work. I put on holiness that comes from Him, and I have NO BOAST of my own works or my own righteousness. My boast is in the cross of Jesus Christ, who suffered and paid the price so I don't have to. I have no problem with holiness. I DO have a problem with extra-biblical rules that have been legislated upon the people of God.

Galatians 5.1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Colossians 2.20-23 (NIV)
Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

The antagonism you perceive here is toward the arrogance and judgmental attitude of you, and those like you, who believe that everyone needs to look and act and think just like you or they're wrong. That's phariseeical, not Christ-like.

We should have good works. We're called unto good works. But they don't save us!

Ephesians 2.8-10 (emphasis mine)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

God bless and keep you.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by holinesspk

I think I stirred up Praxeas. lol! I think I recognize you too. You got a bus sized chip on your shoulder bro........

You know I guess I stirred up a lot of people. I think its conviction myself, but hey, it dont matter. Look I am not trying to convince ayone. I was simply posting an observation and my thoughts on it. It y'all wanna get nasty, believe me I could . I used to get suspended all the time for getting involved and even starting those dirty debates where it just got mean. But I am not here for that, so a lot of your posts, I wont respond to, because they are simply there to cause trouble and to be divisive and just to plain argue. If you dont like holiness, fine. No skin off my nose. It does hurt me to see such a blindness as to think standards are not necessary, but its your salvation. And we are to each work out our own salvation with all fear and trembling. I am to busy with mine to concern myself with yours, if that makes sense.

One issue I will deal with though is this. Many of you said, you think I think works will get you to heaven. Yes I do. You can do works to keep you out of Heaven, you can do works to get you in. Now I dont mean works of merit like the Catholics believe. I mean works of faith. I do these works because of my walk with the Lord, not to gain a walk with the Lord. I just want to keep my robe white. Nothing is worth missing Heaven over. I would rather having gone above and beyond, than just guessed and miss it. Why is that such a pot stirrer? Shouldnt all Holy Ghost filled christians feel the same? Or do you have the Holy Ghost? It seems a lot of you think you can just get the Holy Ghost and then live like the Devil and expect to sail in at the Pearly Gates. I dont think so. Straight is the Gate and NARROW is the way. We all like the gate and brag about being Jesus Name people, but we sure dont like the narrow way apparentlly.

I guess my observation remains. I just dont understand the attitude displayed here, that is so antagonistic towards holiness. Is not doing "extra" supposing its extra, worth going to Heaven? When you walk the streets of gold, wont it be worth it? Why must you walk the line and condemn those who try to stay as far from the line as possible? Oh well, I just pray you all are right for your sakes. I really mean that too. Because If you are right, we all are ok and will all sail in Heaven, but if I am right, then Lord have mercy, a lot of you are in trouble. I think many of you have forgotten what the Bible said about how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God.

(1 Peter 4:18 KJV) And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

I am a little late chiming in here. But I think that is your problem right there. The fact that you equate clothes and hair with holiness.