I don't think recognizing false doctrine is a calling. False doctrine and false teachers arise because not enough people will do or say something, not a reflection on anyone in particular just the very notion itself the bible warns on
2Pe 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Mat 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
We've even discussed UPC preachers preaching false doctrine here
I agree.
Well said.
__________________ http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
I've been to Lakewood a few times now on Saturday evenings.
Yes, Joel is "Diet Gospel" in his public sermons. Their approach at Lakewood is to get people in the door.
However... I will defend them on this... they do emphasize the Holy Spirit. If you walk through one of their lobbies they have plenty of literature on receiving the Holy Spirit. They don't push it from a salvational viewpoint, but it would be in line with what a AG church does.
His mom has massive healing prayer services once a week after one of the Sunday services in one of the attached wedding chapels. They are big into pentecostal/charismatic style healing.
They have classes once a month to explain what receiving the Holy Spirit and Baptism is all about (which actually beats most apostolic churches since they hardly ever lay down doctrine systematically).
They have many classes to help people grow in various areas like divorce recovery, financial planning, learning basic bible doctrines, etc etc in a buffet style approach.. which actually isn't a bad way to do bible study overall.
The approach of Lakewood is to have a wide open door and then start assimilating folks as they get plugged into the system. They do emphasize the Holy Spirit, Tongues (they call it speaking in your God Given Prayer Language in the literature), and divine healing... they just wait until you buy into the church and join before they push it.
I'm not a fan of Joels preaching by any means.. its somewhat empty for me. But his church has a amazing back end system to get the job done. Its the opposite of most apostolic churches where they have good preaching, and no back end systems or delegated authority at all beyond the few home bible study teachers who never get a ounce of respect from the platform (and you know its true).
These comments are so uninformed as to be comical...Joel Olsteen doesn't preach at all...he is the single clearest example of the all too common, non-scriptural, feel-good speaker...in essence...everybody, let's feel good...everybody let's not say anything troubling...everybody, let's join hands...in corporate happiness while the world goes whirling around without hearing the wonderful good news of Jesus Christ...
...the Olsteen principle is not new...yea, it is ancient...and is defined by the longstanding, humorous adage...a ministry of "see no evil; hear no evil; speak no evil..."
...no power...no anointing...no nothing...
I totaly agree. His attitude on Larry King gives a exellent example of this pathetic excuse for a preacher.
Men and Brethren what shall we do?
Joel Osteen. Well, how do you feel about it.
We are pricked in the heart!
Joel Osteen.. That's great! Use that energy!
For what?
Joel Osteen.. See I have these books that will teach you alot of nothing and leave you feeling good about nothing but doing good about nothing.
I've been to Lakewood a few times now on Saturday evenings.
Yes, Joel is "Diet Gospel" in his public sermons. Their approach at Lakewood is to get people in the door.
However... I will defend them on this... they do emphasize the Holy Spirit. If you walk through one of their lobbies they have plenty of literature on receiving the Holy Spirit. They don't push it from a salvational viewpoint, but it would be in line with what a AG church does.
His mom has massive healing prayer services once a week after one of the Sunday services in one of the attached wedding chapels. They are big into pentecostal/charismatic style healing.
They have classes once a month to explain what receiving the Holy Spirit and Baptism is all about (which actually beats most apostolic churches since they hardly ever lay down doctrine systematically).
They have many classes to help people grow in various areas like divorce recovery, financial planning, learning basic bible doctrines, etc etc in a buffet style approach.. which actually isn't a bad way to do bible study overall.
The approach of Lakewood is to have a wide open door and then start assimilating folks as they get plugged into the system. They do emphasize the Holy Spirit, Tongues (they call it speaking in your God Given Prayer Language in the literature), and divine healing... they just wait until you buy into the church and join before they push it.
I'm not a fan of Joels preaching by any means.. its somewhat empty for me. But his church has a amazing back end system to get the job done. Its the opposite of most apostolic churches where they have good preaching, and no back end systems or delegated authority at all beyond the few home bible study teachers who never get a ounce of respect from the platform (and you know its true).
No back end system I would agree. It's not about getting people in the door or saved it's usually about keeping them plugged in and loving them all the way through it.
Yep, how do you think an unknown with his first book rose so quickly? But it is a fact, I believe the initial order was around 200,000. Now, understand, this is not uncommon. Many books get on the list this way and while I am sure the members bought copies also, the corporation bought the bulk.
In retrospect, it was a good move. It paid off, but to think he is noble because of it, I think not. Maybe just a good businessman.
As I understand a spot on the list is "purchased." To begin with, it has nothing to do with booksales. Of course, when you hit the list--the book sales follow. (Not sure if this is true, but I got my information from ministry/business directors leaders of TL Osborne).
I'm not a fan of Joels preaching by any means.. its somewhat empty for me. But his church has a amazing back end system to get the job done. Its the opposite of most apostolic churches where they have good preaching, and no back end systems or delegated authority at all beyond the few home bible study teachers who never get a ounce of respect from the platform (and you know its true).
Quote:
Originally Posted by LUKE2447
No back end system I would agree. It's not about getting people in the door or saved it's usually about keeping them plugged in and loving them all the way through it.
No argument here.
When it comes to teaching...training... community outreach...promotions, and use of media to deliver the message... and just efficient organization as a whole, there are other groups that dont have truth, that actually run rings around most apostolic churches and denomiminations.
Frankly, I've seen programs implemented by the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, certain Charismatic groups, etc that would put many, or most, of our Apostolic churches to shame. It's great to have the correct message (which I'm convinced that we do), but if we dont deliver it efficiently, it makes one wonder: how many souls are falling through the cracks in the meantime?
When it comes to teaching...training... community outreach...promotions, and use of media to deliver the message... and just efficient organization as a whole, there are other groups that dont have truth, that actually run rings around most apostolic churches and denomiminations.
Frankly, I've seen programs implemented by the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, certain Charismatic groups, etc that would put many, or most, of our Apostolic churches to shame. It's great to have the correct message (which I'm convinced that we do), but if we dont deliver it efficiently, it makes one wonder: how many souls are falling through the cracks in the meantime?
It shows simply one thing. Church programs tht create size and good preachers that keep saints have really nothing to do with truth. It also shows one can create a huge church with minimal truth and everyone go along with a bunch of nothing.
As I understand a spot on the list is "purchased." To begin with, it has nothing to do with booksales. Of course, when you hit the list--the book sales follow. (Not sure if this is true, but I got my information from ministry/business directors leaders of TL Osborne).
You understand wrong. Spots on the bestseller lists are not sold. Good grief!
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
It shows simply one thing. Church programs that create size and good preachers that keep saints have really nothing to do with truth. It also shows one can create a huge church with minimal truth and everyone go along with a bunch of nothing.
Indeed, but of course the flip side of that is also true (and is more important to us as Apostolics):
Even after having truth, there still need to be practical, real-world delivery systems to deliver the message to the world. If we don't develop those (through proper teaching, training, discipling, leadership development, effective outreach programs, etc.) we wont be nearly as effective as we could and should be.
__________________ http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
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